Trailblazer
Veteran Member
It is not common, but people do leave the Baha'i Faith....
No, they are not considered spiritually dead, although there are repercussions for rejecting Baha'u'llah.
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What are some of your thoughts on death?
- Thread starter MatthewA
- Start date
No, they are not considered spiritually dead, although there are repercussions for rejecting Baha'u'llah.
cataway
Well-Known Member
''No, they are not considered spiritually dead'' humm, thats a odd .some one commits spiritual suicided by leaving the faith and is yet not considered spiritually dead
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I did not say anything about spiritual suicide.
cataway
Well-Known Member
no i said that.
they did leave the faith ,there is even the potential of leading others off . yeah maybe you should rethink your thoughts on post #79
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I don't see how post #79 is related to this.
Yes, even mortal Adam was told he was mortal because he could die - Genesis 2:17
ALL of mortal sinner Adam ' returned ' to the dust from where he started - Genesis 3:19
Mortal Adam's mortal physical body would still be with us today if he had Not broken God's Law.
However, we are innocent of what father Adam brought upon humanity.
Death is unavoidable for us because we sin. If we could stop sinning we would Not die.
Because we can't stop sinning we die, and can't resurrect oneself or anyone else.
This is why we needed someone who could resurrect us - Jesus can and will - Revelation 1:18
ALL the resurrections Jesus performed were healthy physical resurrections.
I find earth's nations are here on Earth and here on Earth Jesus will bring ' healing' to earth's nations- Revelation 22:2
Mortal Adam lost the ' tree of life ' for us, but immortal heavenly Jesus will return it to us - Revelation 22:14; John 5:26
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Physical death is unavoidable because God created us to me mortal.
Even if we stopped sinning we would still die physically. We die because we are mortal.
Nobody can resurrect dead bodies after they are dead and there is no reason to because we won't need physical bodies in heaven.
When we die our physical bodies will die and we will be raised as spiritual bodies. Paul says that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God and that means they cannot exist in heaven. When Paul says these dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever, he is referring to the spiritual world (heaven), which will last forever.
1 Corinthians 15:40-54 New Living Translation
40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.
44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.
50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.
51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!
54 Then, when our dying bodies have been transformed into bodies that will never die,[c] this Scripture will be fulfilled: “Death is swallowed up in victory.[d]
Read full chapter
Thank you for your reply. Yes, there are both heavenly bodies and earthly bodies.
1st Corinthians is written to or addressed to Jesus' spiritual ' brothers ' ( verse one) - Matthew 25:40.
* In verse 40 Paul reasons that even animals come in many different body types besides heavenly angels with flesh-and-blood humans, and there is also inanimate creation aka *stars* so God gives appropriate bodies.
* In verse 44 then there is No immaterial soul separate or distinct from the body.
Soul dies (Ezekiel 18:4,20) when the body dies.
Just as Christ poured out his soul to death. At death dead Jesus was in the grave Acts of the Apostles 2:27.
Jesus was put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit ( spirit body )- 1 Peter 3:18
There was No joining of any soul with his body, but ALL posses either a heavenly or earthly body.
One or the other, Not both, so a person who has died would have to have a body.
That would be either become a 'physical body' or a 'spirit body' as Jesus now has.
* In verse 50 we need to know how the dead are to be raised.
As with a plant the sown seed must die. Thus similar to the resurrection. Resurrection to Heaven or on Earth.
So, those called to Heaven (Revelation 20:6) are sown in a physical or fleshly body, but raised up in a spirit body.
This is because: 'Flesh' (physical) can Not inherit the kingdom.
Now, however Not all 'brothers ' called to heaven 'sleep' in death (spend time in death) but are quickly resurrected.
Raised up incorruptible ( changed from the physical to the spirit body ) - verses 50-52.
It is those who have that first or earlier resurrection ( Revelation 20:6; Revelation 2:10; Revelation 5:9-10 ) who
have that ' twinkling of an eye' resurrection to Heaven to reign with Christ for a thousand years.
They are the ones who are transformed to a spirit body.
* In verse 54 those transformed ones have resurrected spirit bodies ( verses 42-54)
So, there is a difference between Jesus' [brothers] - Matthew 25:40 - and the 'sheep' of verse 37.
The ' sheep ' who die before the thousand-year reign of Christ over Earth will have a fleshly physical resurrection.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
no....
there are two possiblities
you will follow your body into the grave
and eternal darkness
or
you will stand from your carcass and continue in spirit
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
It's option b.
We Never Know
No Slack
No one knows what, if anything comes after death. To claim something does is nothing but taught faith.
Jedster
Well-Known Member
Every body dies. (In case you're wondering, that's not a typo. I intentionally didn't make that a compound word.
I stopped driving last year and gave away my car.
Does that mean I am mindless?
Jedster
Well-Known Member
Lol. And bodiless...apparently.
Actually, I was almost made bodiless last Sunday, when I was hit by a moving car(not the one I gave away btw).
The fact that I walked into a moving car could very well indicate that I was/am already mindless.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
eternal darkness is a physical reality
no form of light follows anyone into the grave
no sunlight
no moonlight
no candle light
no philosophical light
really is dark down there
or....you stand in spirit
right after your last breath
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
and a spiritual reality.