If an idea put into practice harms others and society, it should be opposed. How can such an idea be true and good?
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What are religionists being taught about other religions?
- Thread starter loverofhumanity
- Start date
Since the OP said..."I welcomed them and invited them in my home to say prayers for humanity. They replied that their elders had forbidden them to mingle or become friendly with people from other Faiths because they might catch a ‘spiritual disease " I am inclined to say it would be Mormons because we don't come into people's homes to pray for humanity....Mormons always want to come in and "pray for the blessing of the Lord Jesus in your home"....nor would we ever say that people of other faiths are somehow contagious. Jesus sought out those who were spiritually lost......JW's do too.
You do realize that the Mormons always used to wear a badge with their name...."Elder such and such".....never spoke to Mormons?....huh?
Your experience does not speak for my entire brotherhood...sorry. This is not the way it is in my experience at all....and I have moved around and enjoyed the brotherhood of many congregations.
Really? No thought of giving up their spare time to actually save someone's life? No thought of calling back on someone who showed some interest because you wanted them to enjoy the coming paradise?
I just watched a video about a group of Russians youths some time ago, who were into violence, drugs and immorality. None had any real parental guidance and thought nothing of their lawless lifestyle. When two of Jehovah's Witnesses called at the door of their hangout, they invited them in just to ridicule them, but the two sisters calmly responded to all their questions in a sincere manner. It impressed the group but only one responded with a desire to learn more. He started a Bible study and realized that the life he was living was a dead end, so he told his friends that he could no longer follow their lifestyle. After he left, they all began to examine their lives and decided to study the Bible for themselves....they all became Jehovah's Witnesses, got married, had kids and now enjoy a close relationship as spiritual brothers. They have a large spiritual family with whom they enjoy a warm friendship.
Again...not your experience but then what lens are you looking through? The one that sees only the flaws? We all have them.
We are in a state of continual growth.....that is because the revelation of God's truth is progressive. If your experience was that bad, I am hoping that it was greatly improved by the passage of time. But again, we only have your side of the story. In the old days things were different, but God's standards and principles remain the same. We should all be a work in progress otherwise we stagnate and become no good to anyone.
The end is so close...there is no time for judgment.....there is only time for preaching to as many as possible, before the end comes. (Matthew 24:14)
The Ten Commandments yes of course. The Holy Bible? It is more precious to me than my own life because it led me to recognise Christ when He returned again as He promised.
One of the Ten Commandments is to have no other God before God yet most have set up a system of priests and elders with smooth tongues who’s every word they worship instead of what is written in the Holy Bible. Instead of worshipping the one true God which the Ten Commandments enjoins, Christians worldwide worship their popes and elders and ministers and priests and their views and no longer worship the one God anymore. Whatever these self appointed clergy say the followers who have itchy ears will believe even when they tell them Christ has not returned yet!
Why are Christians selling their souls to their leaders when God gave them minds to think with and eyes of their own to see with? These are the false gods that Christians have unwittingly set up as ‘golden calves’ to worship in spite of the Ten Commandments commanding them nit to set up false gods.
It was the Holy Bible which led me, through the Holy Spirit to see Christ return in the glory of the Father because I do not alliw elders and priests and smooth talkers to deceive me into falsely believing whatever they say as true. I do not worship these self appointed gods.
God gave me my own eyes, ears and mind to see with , hear and think for myself with and I’m glad I used them or I too would be betraying Jesus because one cannot remain loyal to Jesus by accepting His first coming and then closing the door in His Face when He returned again because some elder said He didn’t return.
God has never withdrawn our right to accept or reject Him which is why Christians were told to watch and pray lest they reject Him when He returned. Christians were told to watch and pray not turn to ministers, priests or elders who would decide for them if Jesus had returned or not like the Pharisees did.
By listening to these self appointed leaders, people have failed to investigate the truth impartially and made a grave error of judgement.
I thank God no leader owns or controls how I think or I too would have missed the second coming just like millions of Christians have already because they listened to their leaders.
I have literally dozens of Bibles and commentaries because to me it is the Word of God and the Holy Spirit guided me to the truth through the Holy Spirit not self appointed elders or ministers.
One thing I have learnt is that the Bible kept its promises and does not lie whereas those who claim to follow it will be saying He hasn’t returned for another 2,000 years making the Bible out to be lies. Just as the Jews have delayed Christ’s first coming so far for 2,000 years this is just a never ending story of denial after denial because while religious leaders have their way Christ will never return.
One of the Ten Commandments is to have no other God before God yet most have set up a system of priests and elders with smooth tongues who’s every word they worship instead of what is written in the Holy Bible. Instead of worshipping the one true God which the Ten Commandments enjoins, Christians worldwide worship their popes and elders and ministers and priests and their views and no longer worship the one God anymore. Whatever these self appointed clergy say the followers who have itchy ears will believe even when they tell them Christ has not returned yet!
Why are Christians selling their souls to their leaders when God gave them minds to think with and eyes of their own to see with? These are the false gods that Christians have unwittingly set up as ‘golden calves’ to worship in spite of the Ten Commandments commanding them nit to set up false gods.
It was the Holy Bible which led me, through the Holy Spirit to see Christ return in the glory of the Father because I do not alliw elders and priests and smooth talkers to deceive me into falsely believing whatever they say as true. I do not worship these self appointed gods.
God gave me my own eyes, ears and mind to see with , hear and think for myself with and I’m glad I used them or I too would be betraying Jesus because one cannot remain loyal to Jesus by accepting His first coming and then closing the door in His Face when He returned again because some elder said He didn’t return.
God has never withdrawn our right to accept or reject Him which is why Christians were told to watch and pray lest they reject Him when He returned. Christians were told to watch and pray not turn to ministers, priests or elders who would decide for them if Jesus had returned or not like the Pharisees did.
By listening to these self appointed leaders, people have failed to investigate the truth impartially and made a grave error of judgement.
I thank God no leader owns or controls how I think or I too would have missed the second coming just like millions of Christians have already because they listened to their leaders.
I have literally dozens of Bibles and commentaries because to me it is the Word of God and the Holy Spirit guided me to the truth through the Holy Spirit not self appointed elders or ministers.
One thing I have learnt is that the Bible kept its promises and does not lie whereas those who claim to follow it will be saying He hasn’t returned for another 2,000 years making the Bible out to be lies. Just as the Jews have delayed Christ’s first coming so far for 2,000 years this is just a never ending story of denial after denial because while religious leaders have their way Christ will never return.
dianaiad
Well-Known Member
Y'know, that sounds wonderful, actually.
The problem lies in defining 'harms others and society." As in, who gets to define what 'harm' is?
Poll the people at large. If they don't want to be murdered, then murder harms others. If they don't want to be thought of as an unevolved human, than that idea harms others. If they don't want to believe that they are going to hell if they don't join a cult-like organization, than that idea harms others.
I think people generally know when they have been harmed. Such harm sometimes results in societal changes, for example, women's suffrage, and the civil rights movement.
Christendom is a good example of a misguided idea that harmed people. It created classes of people who got different privileges, and put social pressure on people to pretend like they believed something they didn't. Any religion that secretly wishes to create a form of Christendom; this harms others.
Please see the LDS poster who explained why this wouldn't have been mormons. The people going to the door *are* elders so saying 'elders don't let us do such and such' wouldn't make much sense.Since the OP said..."I welcomed them and invited them in my home to say prayers for humanity. They replied that their elders had forbidden them to mingle or become friendly with people from other Faiths because they might catch a ‘spiritual disease " I am inclined to say it would be Mormons because we don't come into people's homes to pray for humanity....Mormons always want to come in and "pray for the blessing of the Lord Jesus in your home"....nor would we ever say that people of other faiths are somehow contagious. Jesus sought out those who were spiritually lost......JW's do too.
You do realize that the Mormons always used to wear a badge with their name...."Elder such and such".....never spoke to Mormons?....huh?
I never said it did, but as I've told you before, your experience doesn't nullify my own. And I've been to several congregations in different states, and some conventions as well. I was with a traveling fulltime pioneer at the time.
That's certainly the speech. Like a smile that never quite reaches the eyes.
Anyway I don't feel like rehashing this again.
You are welcome to come...our meetings (JW’s) are open to the public!
Nothing like seeing (and hearing) for yourself.
We call all our members “brothers and sisters”...we don’t call them “elder so-and-so”, or “elders”.
However, Mormons do. And, when Mormons have come to my house, it’s mostly been ladies. They are not elders.
Where did you get the term, “traveling pioneers”?
That’s another term we don’t use.
You say things (even more in that post I’m quoting from) that bring into question the truthfulness about your past dealings with Witnesses.
I simply don’t believe you’ve had much contact....your partial knowledge betrays it.
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Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Do you have to find the common ground between religions? Don't you think it is already known? You just need to be humane. Help others if you can and do not harm any other. Is there more to it? The rest all is divisive - God, Gods, Goddesses, prophets, sons, messengers, manifestations, mahdis; this religion or that religion. That is what needs to be ignored. To think that it needs a research or revelation is funny.
My religion teaches that one must steadfastly remain true to one's own duties.
"śreyān sva-dharmo viguṇaḥ, para-dharmāt sva anuṣṭhitāt;
sva-dharme nidhanaṁ śreyaḥ, para-dharmo bhayāvahaḥ." BhagawadGita 3.35
(To discharge one’s duties, even if faultily, is far than following some other perfectly. To die in performing one’s own duty is better, following some other is abominable.)
Tumah
Veteran Member
I guess you're excluding Judaism in this statement. The Tanach teaches us to not behave life idolaters and not to marry non-Jews. The Talmud goes a step further and enacted Laws to prevent socializing with non-Jews (or at least, idolatrous ones). These are our Holy Books.
Yes, we are forbidden to pray in a place of idolatry. We're also forbidden to give tacit acknowledgement to places that are antithetical to Judaism.
If it led you to believe a self-proclaimed prophet who had nothing to back up that claim but his own rhetoric, then it did not lead you to Christ because he has not returned to judge the world as yet. He is presently ruling in his Kingdom as these 'last days' draw to a close, but he has not brought the blessings of the Kingdom to this earth as yet because so much had to be accomplished before the final judgment on the devil's system.
What is the purpose of Christ's return? Was it to write some more scripture and then to die again? We do not need more scripture, and Christ as an immortal spirit on his return to heaven, can never die twice.
One of the features of the sign Jesus gave was ..."Look out that nobody misleads you, 5 for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many." (Matthew 24:4)
Hasn't that happened, just as Jesus said? Your prophet claimed to be the Christ and he has misled many.
I couldn't agree more. Christendom is a sham! It has been corrupted just as Jesus said it would be. Did you not notice his warning about the "wheat and the weeds"? (Matthew 13:24-30) Or Paul's words at Acts 20:29...or Peter's at 2 Peter 2:1. An apostasy was foretold but Christendom pretends its never happened.
I agree again. Paul's words....warning about those who would teach lies instead of truth....
"But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders 10 and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. 11 That is why God lets a deluding influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness."
If people want a delusion, then God lets them keep what they want...these ones have no love for the truth because it doesn't fit in with what they want to believe.They have invented their own god to suit their own beliefs.
So that is why Peter said...."For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled. 4 They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories." (2 Timothy 4:3-4)
Some tell those false stories here through a very distorted lens.....and believe that they are true.
Yet you accept the teaching of Bahá'u'lláh....how can you say that you don't allow yourself to be deceived? He had no way to prove who he said he was. You have to accept him on faith, just as Mormons have to accept Joseph Smith. Jesus had the power of holy spirit which was very persuasive in the first century. People saw with their own eyes that this wasn't simply a man making claims.....he demonstrated that God was backing him...he wasn't just a smooth talker.
JW's have no modern day prophets.....we have Jesus. He was the one God sent....there are no others.
If you rely on the Bible to tell you the manner of Christ's return, then you would see why Bahá'u'lláh cannot be the one.
Jesus said.... at Matthew 25:31-46...
31 “When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right: ‘Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world"....asked when they did good deeds to him . . . . "In reply the King will say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left: ‘Go away from me, you who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels. . . .‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of these least ones, you did not do it to me.’ 46 These will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.”
Did Bahá'u'lláh do that? Did he judge the world and separate the sheep from the goats? Did he deal with the wicked and consign them to the same fate as the devil and his hordes? Did he rid the world of wickedness and usher in the blessings of the Kingdom? (Revelation 21:2-4) How can anyone even make a small connection between Jesus and this man? I don't understand?
You don't think that your own expectations may be in error? Are you not listening to the words of a self-appointed "Christ"?
How can you miss something that hasn't happened yet?....unless someone misled you? What if it was a charlatan pretending to be 'Christ returned'? Did you not check the scriptures to see in what manner he would come? Before he left the earth, Jesus said that "the world would behold [him] no more"...yet you believe that it did? Why? Who or what convinced you to ignore the Bible and put your faith in a man?
I appreciate your commitment to your faith, but it saddens me when deep commitment is misplaced.
I grew up in Christendom, but in rejecting the church system, I never opted for a different version of God or a replacement for the Bible's teachings. You cannot believe in Baha'i teachings if you accept the Bible as the word of God. They contradict one another.
As I said, we believe that Christ is already ruling and has been since 1914 when the last days began.....but not until all features of the sign he gave have been fulfilled with we see Christ come in his Kingdom glory......it will not be as a mere mortal, but as a powerful reigning King with an angelic army, who is going to pass judgment on this world and all who oppose his incoming Kingdom.
This is what I believe the Bible teaches....
Said 'elders' not elder so and so.
I haven't been in contact in more than 15 years, but I was with a full time pioneer (I said I traveled with one, not that she was a 'traveling pioneer').
But I was JW for decades, never baptized, attended two meetings and a bible study (there were about nine of us) weekly. I still have my NWT with my name in leaf, still have some art from a particular artist who did a lot of literature including that rad painting of the harlot on the red leopard-hydra and pictures from the conventions I went to. I still remember how to tell JW who've been around a while by the way they say 'young people.' I still remember some of the songs sung at meetings. Always loved the one that finished 'I will help you reach your goal.'
I would give you that pioneer's name and the congregation if I cared enough to reveal private information. But honestly part of the cultish behavior is not believing anything bad anyone says about their experience. Which is why so much misconduct gets swept under the rug. And I don't have the energy for the denial game.
Tumah
Veteran Member
Would you believe that out of respect for my parents, I never say their names? You would, because I've told you this before. That's one way to show respect in Judaism. So perhaps what you mean to say is, "In my community as a JW, we specifically use the names of people we hold in esteem".
I also wonder what the popular perception is. Maybe other RFers can chime as, as I don't know, myself:
In TV shows and movies is it common for people to refer to others that they are assumed to respect (parents, kings, judges, heads of state/government, etc.) by their titles (dad, mom, my liege, your honor, Mr. President) or their names?
Of course not.
In fact I have this with people on here too. Even though I may know a user's real name, I am very hesitant to use it (in a context where I could) as it seems rather more intimate, too personal, than I'd like. I suppose that may sound a bit ridiculous, but that's just me I guess.
Tumah
Veteran Member
I don't think it's weird. I don't call the women I work with by their first names either. It's too personal and I don't want to create even a small sense of intimacy with any woman not in my family.
Reason to love Haredi Judaism, no. 28,373: not making you feel objectified and creeped out.
This is good to know.
Tumah
Veteran Member
Ok, well to be honest, I don't call them Mrs.... or Ms.. either, since that feels kind of dated. I just kind of uncomfortable clear my throat or stand around looking like I'd like to be noticed and when someone turns my way, I just start talking.
Social situations are not my strong point.
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Ok, ok, interacting with people at all, is not my strong point, get off my back already!
I recall I was on a train once and a young man was sat beside me. I was not thrilled but too British to tell him anything. We started talking and it was apparent he liked me. It was the hottest day of the year and he bought me some bottled water.
They were literally giving bottled water out free on the trains.
So I guess he wasn't so good at that either.
Tumah
Veteran Member
Haha.
Also haha that your trains don't have air conditioning. Maybe it's time to move antiquated Britain to the modern age.
They did and in traditional British fashion it broke.