What Are Muslims in Your Country Like?

[Debater Slayer]

They are pretty much just like anyone else.

As I mentioned earlier, I'm mainly asking about their views on things like same-sex marriage, gender equality, etc. What are the views of most Muslims you have talked to about these things where you live?

The reason I'm being this specific in my question is that most Muslims I know are "just like anyone else" too; it's not like they bite or go around beating people up. It's their beliefs about certain issues that I'm more interested to know about, since that's the main area where the problematic aspects show up with most of the Muslims I know.

 

[jeager106]

I don't talk to Muslims.
Why?
I don't know any.
That said, rest assured I'd NOT bring up terrorism or the Orlando murderers.
I don't feel Muslims here need to be reminded of that insult to Islam
I don't don't for a second a Muslim would harm me or mine.
??????????????
But there is this .45 auto under my car seat!
But, if I ever had to use it to defend me or mine or YOU, I'd bet the offender
would not be a Muslim.
Likely just another local hoodlum.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I don't talk to Muslims.
Why?
I don't know any.
That said, rest assured I'd NOT bring up terrorism or the Orlando murderers.
I don't feel Muslims here need to be reminded of that insult to Islam
I don't don't for a second a Muslim would harm me or mine.
??????????????
But there is this .45 auto under my car seat!
But, if I ever had to use it to defend me or mine or YOU, I'd bet the offender
would not be a Muslim.
Likely just another local hoodlum.

Genuine question, Jeager: What is it with your apparent fascination with guns? Did you really need to shoehorn a mention of your "0.45 auto under [your] car seat" there?

 

[jeager106]

Genuine question, Jeager: What is it with your apparent fascination with guns? Did you really need to shoehorn a mention of your "0.45 auto under [your] car seat" there?

Not a fascination at all.
: preoccupation, passion, obsession, compulsion;
An interest in self defense and a desire to inhibit a crime in progress if possible.
I do have enemies out there that might take advantage of my physical injuries
and advancing age.
I'm disabled police officer, 10 years as a detective and put a number of bad
****** in prison.
I doubt all of them are grateful, though many are on the outside and mellow
now. I hope.
And I've seen everything that should never happen to anyone that happened
anyway.
Incest, rape, felonious assaults, burglaries, robberies,................................................

 

[Debater Slayer]

Not a fascination at all.
: preoccupation, passion, obsession, compulsion;
An interest in self defense and a desire to inhibit a crime in progress if possible.
I do have enemies out there that might take advantage of my physical injuries
and advancing age.
I'm disabled police officer, 10 years as a detective and put a number of bad
***** in prison.
I doubt all of them are grateful, though many are on the outside and mellow
now. I hope.
And I've seen everything that should never happen to anyone that happened
anyway.
Incest, rape, felonious assaults, burglaries, robberies,................................................

Okay. I hope you stay safe.

 

[jeager106]

Okay. I hope you stay safe.

I intend to ergo the .45.
I pray I never, ever, need to use it.
I've seen so many needless deaths due to firearms.
....................and knives, and rocks, and choking, and beating, and even a golf shaft!
Yeah a guy ran another guy through with a freaking golf shaft!
A m/c gang member at a "club" meeting got ticked at his g-friend and kicked
her to death while other "club" members just watched.
I had a tough time getting witness statement from the men but the woman would
write a statement when pressured a bit.
The guy got 20 to 40 for manslaughter.
The prosecutor felt there wasn't enough intent for murder.
Oh, well............................it sucked.
Lennie Lynn, I'll never forget that one. Among way too many others.
He got into a tiff with his g-friend who poked him in the side of the neck with
a paring knife, blade was 1.5".
The blade nicked the jugular and he bled out.
Another manslaughter charge. Obviously no intent to kill.
There there was the woman who ran a 12" blade butcher knife up her mans
g-friends unmentionable part.
I wondered? How does one plug that wound !!!!?
She bled and bled and bled. The e.m.t.'s managed to stuff bandages up
where the sun don't shine.
She eventually pulled through but bet sex was off the table for a good while.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Thanks! How devout would you say most Muslims you have known are?



Are niqabs common at all (as opposed to burqas)?

In my area, I see niqabs maybe once or twice a year. It's rare enough to stand out but often enough that I know what it's about.

Hi,

As a muslim I can't understand how a muslim can call a shooter who killed innocent people a true hero.
The conservative muslims I know here in KSA and in the west condemn what happened in Orlando. I ask God to give strenght and peace to the friends and families of the victims.

Most of the praise that I've seen for the Pulse night club shooter has been from Christians.

The Muslims I meet here are generally okay. There's a Muslim group in Toronto that protests gay-tolerant material in the public school sex ed curriculum occasionally, but that's about it. In general, the Muslims I meet are generally kind, thoughtful, intelligent people.

I've noticed a trend: minority religions tend to be tolerant of others and hold generally positive beliefs, while majority religions tend to be oppressive for non-adherents. It doesn't seem to matter which religion we're talking about: for instance, Buddhism is seen as a very tolerant religion in the West, but Buddhist-controlled countries tend to have quite intolerant regimes.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

As I mentioned earlier, I'm mainly asking about their views on things like same-sex marriage, gender equality, etc. What are the views of most Muslims you have talked to about these things where you live?

The reason I'm being this specific in my question is that most Muslims I know are "just like anyone else" too; it's not like they bite or go around beating people up. It's their beliefs about certain issues that I'm more interested to know about, since that's the main area where the problematic aspects show up with most of the Muslims I know.

Pretty much no different than Christians. Things like same-sex marriage or gender equality, some support, some are vehemently opposed, and some really don't care because it's not their life but someone else making their own decisions in life. Though, for the most part, they aren't as controlling as Christians and they don't expect others to live according to their own religious views, which is the total opposite of many Christians here, who insist kids not even learn evolution in a science class but rather their own interpretation of Genesis and creationism.

 

[Estro Felino]

I've had excellent experiences with Arab-speaking student during my university studies. At the college dormitory I met people from the Middle East and Northern Africa...they turn out to be kinder and friendlier than locals.
We never spoke of religion, but of history, language and philosophy, most of the times; also recently I befriended Egyptian people and they are marvelous as well.

I appreciate your answer, but

1) your post doesn't address the specific issues I asked about (views on same-sex marriage and gender equality, primarily), and

Well...I guess if they had been homophobic, they would have never befriended me. And as for gender equality, I have to underline that the people I met (I cannot speak for everyone) tended to treat women more fairly than most male students there.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I've had excellent experiences with Arab-speaking student during my university studies. At the college dormitory I met people from the Middle East and Northern Africa...they turn out to be kinder and friendlier than locals.
We never spoke of religion, but of history, language and philosophy, most of the times; also recently I befriended Egyptian people and they are marvelous as well.

I appreciate your answer, but

1) your post doesn't address the specific issues I asked about (views on same-sex marriage and gender equality, primarily), and

2) this thread is nearly two years old. Things have changed quite a bit since then, so I no longer have the need for the question.

Thanks for taking the time to answer, though.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I'm asking this question because I'm seriously approaching the point of distrusting Muslims as a religious group overall—that is, to the point of distrusting most Muslims. Just now I was looking at comments (in Arabic) on an article about the Orlando shooting, and on top of the fact that the article referred to the gay nightclub as a "deviant nightclub," many of the comments celebrated the incident and called the shooter "a true man."

I would just like to know how most Muslims are in the U.S. or, if you are from another Western country, how most Muslims are in your country—the ones you have met and known, at least.

I'm not going to criticize Muslims or Islam in this thread, because I might let out more cynicism than I would like and because I would rather not criticize either at this particular sensitive time. I'm just trying to gain understanding because I'm quite jaded due to my experiences with the vast majority of Muslims I have ever met, including relatively "moderate" ones.

And what bothers me as much or possibly more is when I see far-left liberals defending Islam and Muslims in general, even Muslims in the Muslim world who express sentiments like what I mentioned above, instead of acknowledging any problems whatsoever with either. It's one thing to refuse to criticize Islam and certain (albeit very large groups of) Muslims for the time being (which is what I'm doing or at least trying to do right now) or to even remain neutral overall, but to defend both?

Yeah, I need some more perspective here primarily out of sheer need to curb jadedness and cynicism. Reading those comments quite literally made me sick in my stomach, and I'm trying not to fall for such general distrust toward such a large religious group.

I always say, with over seven billion people on the planet you cannot possibly know "most" of less than 1% of that figure. You just have bad experiences, and reading blogs and online sources as well as negative run ins don't help. We can honestly make that same stereotype of anyone of any group and unfortunately we are influenced sometimes by our bad experiences. Here is what I don't like:

"And what bothers me as much or possibly more is when I see far-left liberals defending Islam and Muslims in general, even Muslims in the Muslim world who express sentiments like what I mentioned above, instead of acknowledging any problems whatsoever with either."

I personally on this website choose not to be as critical of Muslims as the rest of you on purpose given the climate of vitriol expressed against Muslims. For me, I see Muslims in the same category of assumptions and stereotypes as I see blacks, Latinos, Asians or any POC. It is easy to have several bad experiences and say all or most without knowing all or most. But my opinions have nothing to do with my political lean as you've mentioned above, it mostly has to do with me being a minority, period.

As I've said many times I have studied Islam for over 18 years, from simple Qur'an to Kalaam, to groups like Ikhwan al-Safa, Maliliki School of Thought on Shari'ah you name it. I would like to healthy grasp in understanding Islam in the historical context as it was practiced during that time just as I see other faiths. As far as personal encounters with Muslims it has for the most part been positive. That is not to say there aren't some bad Muslims because I've experienced that as well. Muslims, like Jews, like Christians, Hindus, have the dregs of society within their ranks like any other group. This "left-leaning" progressive calls out their bogus attitudes as well.

I'm going to tell you like I've said before there are Muslims, and there are cultural Muslims. Unfortunately you have Muslims who think violent behavior or just plain ole dissension is the will of God. Some Muslims will not eat with you, or allow you to be a guest in their homes or date their children etc.....These are cultural Muslims. These are the Muslims who use their culture as a form of "bid'ah" where they think their culture and the behavior thereof, is sanctioned by God when it is not written in neither Qur'an or Sunnah. The problem with that is the honor system is so engrained in Arab culture and even south east Asian cultures that it almost takes western influence of cultural intersectionality to help people open their minds.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I always say, with over seven billion people on the planet you cannot possibly know "most" of less than 1% of that figure. You just have bad experiences, and reading blogs and online sources as well as negative run ins don't help. We can honestly make that same stereotype of anyone of any group and unfortunately we are influenced sometimes by our bad experiences. Here is what I don't like:

"And what bothers me as much or possibly more is when I see far-left liberals defending Islam and Muslims in general, even Muslims in the Muslim world who express sentiments like what I mentioned above, instead of acknowledging any problems whatsoever with either."

I personally on this website choose not to be as critical of Muslims as the rest of you on purpose given the climate of vitriol expressed against Muslims. For me, I see Muslims in the same category of assumptions and stereotypes as I see blacks, Latinos, Asians or any POC. It is easy to have several bad experiences and say all or most without knowing all or most. But my opinions have nothing to do with my political lean as you've mentioned above, it mostly has to do with me being a minority, period.

As I've said many times I have studied Islam for over 18 years, from simple Qur'an to Kalaam, to groups like Ikhwan al-Safa, Maliliki School of Thought on Shari'ah you name it. I would like to healthy grasp in understanding Islam in the historical context as it was practiced during that time just as I see other faiths. As far as personal encounters with Muslims it has for the most part been positive. That is not to say there aren't some bad Muslims because I've experienced that as well. Muslims, like Jews, like Christians, Hindus, have the dregs of society within their ranks like any other group. This "left-leaning" progressive calls out their bogus attitudes as well.

I'm going to tell you like I've said before there are Muslims, and there are cultural Muslims. Unfortunately you have Muslims who think violent behavior or just plain ole dissension is the will of God. Some Muslims will not eat with you, or allow you to be a guest in their homes or date their children etc.....These are cultural Muslims. These are the Muslims who use their culture as a form of "bid'ah" where they think their culture and the behavior thereof, is sanctioned by God when it is not written in neither Qur'an or Sunnah. The problem with that is the honor system is so engrained in Arab culture and even south east Asian cultures that it almost takes western influence of cultural intersectionality to help people open their minds.

1) Giving minorities less criticism than other groups just because they are minorities is, in my opinion, the kind of virtue signaling that poisons rational discourse and turns it into a competition as to who is the more oppressed minority, especially when it comes to cultural and religious issues. I'm a minority myself--which doesn't alter any facts anyway--and I would never want people criticizing me less just because atheists are a minority that many are hostile to in most Islamic countries. I care less about being criticized and more about being given full rights, which I support for atheists, Muslims, and everyone else.

2) While I would like to think that intolerant and hateful beliefs are merely "bid'ah" or "cultural Islam," reality seems to mismatch with that. The Qur'an has, among other issues, a multitude of verses describing violent punishment for non-believers, in addition to prescribing punishments like lashing for adultery and chopping of hands for theft. Were we talking about a meek, love-promoting text, I could see myself agreeing with your statement, but we're not. We're talking about the Qur'an--and that's without mentioning any of the hadiths that are classed as authentic and encouraging of intolerance and violence. Even some Muslims are criticizing such hadiths at the moment.

3) You're not telling me anything new, despite making some good points (e.g., that all groups have bigots within their ranks). But when we look at some prevalent beliefs according to surveys and polls from countries like Pakistan and parts of the Middle East, it seems to me that not all groups, at least currently, have an equal problem with bigotry among their ranks. That says neither that most Muslims are bigots nor that bigotry is exclusively found among Muslim groups; it just indicates that there's indeed a significant problem in some Muslim countries that isn't equally present in all other groups at this time. It's not like there isn't a good reason even many of the Islamists fleeing their home countries are running off to secular parts of Europe right now.

In any case, I definitely don't think most Muslims are bad people. Also, when it comes to people who have hateful beliefs--be they Muslim, Christian, atheist, or anything else--I don't believe that moderation and bigotry are mutually exclusive in a person's beliefs either. Some people have remarkably compassionate, reasonable beliefs in one area and remarkably hateful, irrational beliefs in another. It seems too black and white to me to suggest that holding moderate or bigoted beliefs is an either-or situation--and the fact that, for instance, two diametrically opposed ideological groups can have similar problems doesn't mean the problems can't be ideologically driven in both cases. Both Ken Ham and Adnan Oktar reject evolution on religious grounds, but I will give you a million dollars if they agree on all of ten other issues.

Strictly classifying people into only two categories of moderation and bigotry, or "good and evil," strikes me as a surefire way to overlook nuances in how ideologies and human nature work. People's beliefs seem to me to be less like a monochromatic block and more like a checkerboard.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

1) Giving minorities less criticism than other groups just because they are minorities is, in my opinion, the kind of virtue signaling that poisons rational discourse and turns it into a competition as to who is the more oppressed minority, especially when it comes to cultural and religious issues. I'm a minority myself--which doesn't alter any facts anyway--and I would never want people criticizing me less just because atheists are a minority that many are hostile to in most Islamic countries. I care less about being criticized and more about being given full rights, which I support for atheists, Muslims, and everyone else.

Being a minority is important because you can relate to the issues other minorities face...

 

[England my lionheart]

One mans muslim is another mans human, I have met quite a few and for the most part we have nothing in common but I could say that about many religious groups.
Of the conversations I've had with them or debates on here they just dont get anything outside of the abhramic religions which to them includes bahai and ahmadis.
The ones I've got to know have been OK but would not engage on questions about religion or apostacy and especially sexual it, not surprising i guess as their book says not tot