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What are gas prices in your area?

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
$2.95 one mile up the road (north)
$2.90 Four miles down the road (south)
$2.60 five miles up the road (north)
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
There is a whole ecosystem of housing sprawl and lack of public transport, as a result of cheap motor fuel in the USA. That needs to change.

The Greater Houston area is about 50 miles across, and consist mostly of ugly identikit housing and strip malls, built around the assumption that every family has at least 2 cars - in practice often more - and can do everything by driving everywhere. That whole way of living is unsustainable.

There's a noticeable difference between the cities in the east, most of which grew up before the automobile, as opposed to cities in the west which grew up after the invention of the automobile. The eastern seaboard is far more densely populated, and in some of the larger metro areas, a lot of people don't have cars and many don't even know how to drive.

It's understandable that people moved out to the suburbs and exurbs when the opportunity presented itself. People viewed life in the cities as low quality - crowded, mucky, grimy, poverty-stricken, crime-ridden, and outright dangerous and unhealthy. People who were upwardly mobile worked to get out of those conditions, which has become a cultural phenomenon and part of the so-called "American Dream." Even the idea of taking public transportation has become "low class," and no one wants to be low class. The real problem is capitalism and consumerism, along with cultural phenomena such as "me first," "instant gratification," etc.

Another problem is that many of those who have made it and have their McMansions on their 3.3 acre plot of land, along with an SUV, a sports car, and a pick-up truck, they all say "Now that we have what we have, we must stop doing this. No more people can have what we have, because it's bad for the environment." These are the kinds of people who think banning plastic bags will save the planet, as they take their daily 50-mile commute.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
People need their cars to get around in North America.

... because public transit isn't a reliable way to get around in most places.

... because it doesn't get enough funding.

... because our fuel taxes are too low.

... because people need their cars to get around.

o_O
Exactly! It's high time that cycle was broken.

What's even worse is that this myth of a God-given right to cheap motor fuel is what has given such impetus to the denial of climate change. "What? You mean I might have to use less gas and pay a lot more for it? Or, or, or....even....use public transport!! :eek: You must be a socialist. Climate change is overstated anyway - must be, or it might inconvenience me."
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
Exactly! It's high time that cycle was broken.

What's even worse is that this myth of a God-given right to cheap motor fuel is what has given such impetus to the denial of climate change. "What? You mean I might have to use less gas and pay a lot more for it? Or, or, or....even....use public transport!! :eek: You must be a socialist. Climate change is overstated anyway - must be, or it might inconvenience me."
um...
what does any of that have to do with the oil companies price gouging gasoline?
 

We Never Know

No Slack
What are gas prices in your area?

My area is south west france. At the moment the price is rocketing, it's gone up 20% in the last couple of months

Petrol (essence/ gas) is currently hovering around the €1.65 per litre and diesel (gas-oil) around €1.38 per litre

Thats $7.65 and $6.36 per US gallon respectively

Ain't you all so lucky with your cheap fuel?
Its interesting that your gas is higher than diesel. Here in the states diesel is higher than gas.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
It seems to be a favourite American pastime to whine about the price of motor fuel - seemingly oblivious of the fact it is far cheaper there than almost anywhere else in the world, with damaging consequences for the world's climate. People were whining about it when I worked in Houston 20 years ago and little seems to have changed. In Europe we pay double what you pay and you almost never hear people making a big issue of the price.
Probably because Americans like big 4x4's and fast cars that don't get very good mpg's and cheaper gas allows for more of them being driven.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Its interesting that your gas is higher than diesel. Here in the states diesel is higher than gas.
That's because the eco nazis mandate detergents and all that other crap to be put into diesel.

Diesel is less refined than gasoline, it should be substantially cheaper, but it dosent register with those who insist it must be more expensive than a fuel requiring more refinement.
 

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
So basically we can forget about reducing the world's greenhouse gas emissions, until Americans run out of petrol? Sweet.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
So basically we can forget about reducing the world's greenhouse gas emissions, until Americans run out of petrol? Sweet.
I wouldn't mind a more greener world, but I'm not convinced it's even remotely ready for practical use on a level that it equates or even surpasses the reliability and durability of fossil fuel use.
 

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't mind a more greener world, but I'm not convinced it's even remotely ready for practical use on a level that it equates or even surpasses the reliability and durability of fossil fuel use.


You're probably right. However, fossil fuel is a finite resource.
So the question really is, how much damage will we do before we find a viable alternative?
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
You're probably right. However, fossil fuel is a finite resource.
So the question really is, how much damage will we do before we find a viable alternative?
Seems to me viable alternatives have been found.
They are just not popular with those who are making large amounts of profits with the current system.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Sorry.

It might not occur to some people that the distances involving a longer commute to work are far more significant than in others, requiring more travel time, and of course, as it stands to reason, more fuel to get there.

Hence making things considerably more expensive than metro-lectualls living in their insulated contained existance among other short commute to work individuals.

You're not going to suggest US commutes are longer than Australian ones, surely?
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
Unleaded, premium unleaded, ethanol, etc we call gas.
Pretty much.
At least here in my neck of the woods you have gas and diesel and E85.
Not really sure what E85 is, but it screws up a gas engine really really good.
As to gas, well, it is everything that one puts in a vehicle that is not diesel or E85.
That is, fuel wise.
We still put oil and transmission fluid, etc in the vehicles as well....
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Even the idea of taking public transportation has become "low class," and no one wants to be low class. The real problem is capitalism and consumerism, along with cultural phenomena such as "me first," "instant gratification," etc.

Another problem is that many of those who have made it and have their McMansions on their 3.3 acre plot of land, along with an SUV, a sports car, and a pick-up truck, they all say "Now that we have what we have, we must stop doing this. No more people can have what we have, because it's bad for the environment." These are the kinds of people who think banning plastic bags will save the planet, as they take their daily 50-mile commute.
Part of the problem is that public transportation in a lot of North America is poor because of those land use decisions.

When you have a suburb full of those 3.3 acre McMansions, a few things happen:

- the density is so low that transit needs significant subsidy to be viable at all.

- routes end up being so long that a ridiculous number of buses are needed to maintain reasonable headways.

The magic number for transit headway is generally considered 5 minutes: if you know that you won't wait longer than 5 minutes for a bus, that's when you can use transit spontaneously for travel the way you would a car.

Imagine a bus route that's a 15 mile loop with an average speed of 30 mph (fairly typical for a North American suburban bus route, I'd say). To maintain 5 minute headways, you'd need at least 6 buses running on that route all the time.

... and that's just one route. Repeat this across a whole city and the costs get ridiculous, which is why in plenty of situations like this, they put only 1 bus on that route instead of 6, and riders have to wait half an hour for a bus.

Understandably, people don't want to wait 30 minutes in the rain or heat (and then another 30 minutes for their transfer), so they don't do it unless they have to.

In the areas of North America where transit has short headways and gets you where you want to go quickly (or at least as quick as a car), taking transit isn't seen as "low class."
 
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