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What about not getting along with other people in heaven?

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
So that would make you, no longer you. It would also mean that you don't have freewill. So why would anyone want to go to heaven, a place where you get forcefuly lobotomized before entering and your freewill taken away. Basically you become an obedient slave. Apparently god finally learned a lesson from his past mistakes. After remembering that Satan was able to think for himself and had the freewill to rebel, god doesn't want humans to do the same so he implemented the failsafe. Somehow, being an emotionless slave for all eternity doesn't sound apealing to me.

I'm sure your scenario would not be appealing to anyone...not even God. Where do you get the idea that God ever meant any human to go to heaven in the beginning at all? There is no mention of that anywhere in the Hebrew scriptures. If Adam had just remained faithful, there would never have been any need for death or suffering or tragedy to have ever been experienced by the human race. Christ would never have come into the world, and there would have been no one going to heaven......ever.

God created mortal, material beings to inhabit a material earth, in a material universe.....why would God create humans on earth if he was only going to take them to heaven after a hellish existence on earth? :shrug: Makes no sense.

What does make sense is, if God took the rebellion that occurred in Eden and made an object lesson out of it.

Once 'the knowledge of good and evil' was unleashed, there was no sending it back. Doesn't it make sense that God would then use it as a means to illustrate the folly of what they had done? All he had to do was step back and allow all that they wanted to do, to play out naturally, knowing full well how it would end. He designed humans to be ruled by him, not each other. As soon as one person's will is imposed on another, there is conflict. Power corrupts humans like nothing else.
The abuse of free will was an opportunity to demonstrate where unguided thinking and rulership independent of the Creator, would lead the human race.....and here we are. What have we learned? Precious little by the looks because we keep repeating the same mistakes. :rolleyes:

Where will it end? God will take us back to the beginning because what he purposed back then will not go unfulfilled. (Isaiah 55:11) Those who have heeded the lessons taught by Jesus will enjoy the life that we were all suppose to have in the first place...those who failed to learn them will not be given citizenship in God's kingdom here on earth. They will face permanent eviction.

As King David wrote....

"Do not be upset because of evil men
Or envious of wrongdoers.
2 They will quickly wither like grass
And shrivel like green new grass.
3 Trust in Jehovah and do what is good;
Reside in the earth, and act with faithfulness.
4 Find exquisite delight in Jehovah,
And he will grant you the desires of your heart.
5 Commit your way to Jehovah;
Rely on him, and he will act in your behalf.
6 He will make your righteousness shine like daybreak,
And your justice like the midday sun.
7 Keep silent before Jehovah
And wait expectantly for him.
Do not be upset by the man
Who succeeds in carrying out his schemes.
8 Let go of anger and abandon rage;
Do not become upset and turn to doing evil.
9 For evil men will be done away with,
But those hoping in Jehovah will possess the earth.
10 Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no more;
You will look at where they were,
And they will not be there.
11 But the meek will possess the earth,
And they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.
12 The wicked man plots against the righteous;
He grinds his teeth at him,
13 But Jehovah will laugh at him,
For He knows that his day will come. . . . . .

27 Turn away from bad and do what is good,
And you will remain forever.
28 For Jehovah loves justice,
And he will not abandon his loyal ones.
They will always be guarded;
But the descendants of the wicked will be done away with.
29 The righteous will possess the earth,
And they will live forever on it."
(Psalm 37)

That is what I look forward to.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
So that would make you, no longer you. It would also mean that you don't have freewill. So why would anyone want to go to heaven, a place where you get forcefuly lobotomized before entering and your freewill taken away. Basically you become an obedient slave. Apparently god finally learned a lesson from his past mistakes. After remembering that Satan was able to think for himself and had the freewill to rebel, god doesn't want humans to do the same so he implemented the failsafe. Somehow, being an emotionless slave for all eternity doesn't sound apealing to me.

I don't think you understand something and that is that everyone is a slave to something/someone, either self, sin, Satan (usually all three are a package deal) or Christ. there are no other options. Satan is not a free entity, but one in bondage to wickedness. Being a slave to self, sin, and Satan is self-destructive and being a slave to Christ brings freedom. We were created and designed by God to be like Him in character and live in eternal purity, holiness, peace, love, joy, and beauty. So freely choosing (and it is a free personal choice everyone makes) to be obedient to Christ means true freedom and the only freedom to be all we were created to be and enjoy this freedom forever. That is my choice and I know I am free forever in the Love of Jesus Christ. You believe whatever, but I believe you are a slave and there is no freedom except in Christ.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
God's kingdom is heaven,
Heaven is God's kingdom.

Both being one and the same

I believe you are confused. God's kingdom is within you. If you are in Heaven; it is there, if you are in heaven; it is there. If you are on earth; it is there.

I believe that is not so. Heaven is definitely God's Kingdom because he rules completely there. However God's Kingdom is everywhere that He can rule people and that is not just Heaven.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Will we then be exactly the same as god? Because that's really the only way that's possible, unless we are to turn into rocks.



To remember why you supposedly deserve to be there?? If didn't remember, you wouldn't even know you were ever on the of the so-called 'righteous.'



Why?

I believe we will be as righteous as God but we won't have the omni characteristics. I believe it is possible by removing the memory of evil. We will still have our personalities.

I believe that might require a memory of evil but certainly God will allow us to remember what is good. I remembered flowers when I was in Heaven.

I believe it doesn't matter.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Presumably you are to spend an eternity with your neighbors in heaven that are also risen, (aside from possibly non-human angel beings or creatures God made with consciousness) and as we know from our experience here, humans seem to display various degrees of interpersonal conflict. At best they are minor; perhaps you would like your neighbor to cut his grass slightly shorter for example. However, if stretched across eternity, do not the minor quibbles become serious? Wouldn't the differences between you and another human individual eventually come under a magnifying glass, creating anxiety of some kind. Furthermore, and on a related tangent, is this line of thinking related to the story of satan rebelling against god? Indicating perhaps that just because you are in heaven, it doesn't mean that differences in morality and opinion can't exist, even to the point of trying to create a completely separate domain
The differences between us really serve to create more beauty within the human family. It's selfishness that causes enmity. I believe that, when we are raised to a higher vibration of being, the lower vibrations (envy, jealousy, fear, etc.) cease. There is no lower vibration in heaven.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
A saved person can't possibly be converted from an individual into a mere automation can they? Because you realize you're describing a perfect regression to the kind of being who hadn't eaten of the tree of knowledge. Furthermore, satan was 'among the sons of god,' indicating that your morality is continually tested.
No, perfect knowledge knows that self-centeredness isn't reality in a higher vibrational state. You're confusing regression with progression.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
Presumably you are to spend an eternity with your neighbors in heaven that are also risen, (aside from possibly non-human angel beings or creatures God made with consciousness) and as we know from our experience here, humans seem to display various degrees of interpersonal conflict. ...

Eternal life is for righteous. They have right understanding and they know love. I don’t think there will be any problems.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46
 

amorphous_constellation

Well-Known Member
The differences between us really serve to create more beauty within the human family. It's selfishness that causes enmity. I believe that, when we are raised to a higher vibration of being, the lower vibrations (envy, jealousy, fear, etc.) cease. There is no lower vibration in heaven.

I agree with your first sentence, but when has the human race or any single religion ever really lived that truth. Who goes to the higher kingdom when Christianity is splintered into a thousand orders and hasn't really even reached the whole world in 2000 years. And to my point on satan, he wasn't a man. In Job and Isaiah a higher state seems to be indicated for satan, and in Genesis we read of beings who also must have come from some higher order.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
I agree with your first sentence, but when has the human race or any single religion ever really lived that truth. Who goes to the higher kingdom when Christianity is splintered into a thousand orders and hasn't really even reached the whole world in 2000 years. And to my point on satan, he wasn't a man. In Job and Isaiah a higher state seems to be indicated for satan, and in Genesis we read of beings who also must have come from some higher order.
Jesus said we are to be the salt of the earth. What happens when you get too much salt in your food? The religion doesn't make perfect people; it serves to make imperfect people better.
 
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