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What about Anton LaVey?

Adramelek

Setian
Premium Member
What are your thoughts about Anton Szandor LaVey, the First Magus of the "Age of Satan" who Uttered the Word "Indulgence" and who founded the original Church of Satan in the common year 1966? Here is a quite amusing interview with LaVey in the early years in which he seemed to enjoy the questioning and ridicule:

 

AnnaCzereda

Active Member
I really enjoyed this interview. I kept laughing as I watched it. Too funny.

What can I say more? That guy, Anton LaVey, had something that many of his fans and critics lack: sense of humor. He didn't take himself and the world too seriously. He could laugh at himself and other people. Perhaps, it was because he was a showman and also worked for some time in a circus.

I sometimes wonder what he would say if he were alive and took a look at our Satanic forums. I bet he would laugh his *** off, especially after seeing all these terribly serious debates about how the TRUE Satanism should look like.
 

Adramelek

Setian
Premium Member
According to some, such as Michael Aquino and Lilith Aquino, Anton LaVey in the years between 1970 and 1975 ce, did believe in the Powers of Darkness and would at times identify them with such terms as "Angles" or "Vibrations" in objective reality which could influence the human psyche and disrupt the cosmic stasis in accordance with the individual Will of the Black Magician.
 

AnnaCzereda

Active Member
There is a similar discussion going on at the 600 Club about whether Anton LaVey was a theist and believed in literal Satan. Dan even posted a video in which LaVey clearly stated he was against devil worship and theism. And though Michael Aquino keeps claiming Anton LaVey had theistic inclinations, there is no evidence, whatsoever, that Satan was anything more to LaVey than an archetype in the human unconscious. Sure, such an archetype of Satan and archetypes of demons can be personified for the ritualistic purposes (suspension of disbelief) and, sure, LaVey believed in the power of the human unconscious to influence daily events, but Satan and demons were never treated by LaVey as real conscious beings.
 

Eihwaz

Founder of the Egregore of DES
What are your thoughts about Anton Szandor LaVey, the First Magus of the "Age of Satan" who Uttered the Word "Indulgence" and who founded the original Church of Satan in the common year 1966? Here is a quite amusing interview with LaVey in the early years in which he seemed to enjoy the questioning and ridicule:


What can I say? Without Anton LaVey then I might still be stuck in a Pentecostal cult and probably would've killed myself by now. Anton LaVey saved my life by allowing me to become aware of this other part of my Self - my True Self - instead of the false self that some abusive fanatics tried to brainwash me into thinking I was. He was one of only two people at the time who had an important message for the American people - the other being Ayn Rand. The problem with Rand is she wanted to throw the baby out with the bathwater - according to her: no Shakespeare, no Nabokov, no Poe, no Lovecraft, et al, and no classical architecture and blah blah. In a word: Rand had no aesthetics and was still trapped in a very Bolshevist dialectical intolerance (Lenin was gung-ho about turning Russia into a Capitalist nation not a Socialist one for that one would come later and the Bolshevists hated all forms of charity and wanted to do away with 'parasitic' individuals and adopt Soviet 'realism' as aesthetics). Ayn Rand novels read like old famous Soviet novels which are very romantic and almost entirely about productive working men and women and their wondrous inventions and their struggle against the exploiters.

I'm not digressing because this is important in understanding Anton LaVey. Without Ayn Rand there would be no Anton LaVey just as without Nietzsche there would be no Ayn Rand (and no Nietzsche without Max Stirner, etc.). I think LaVey was very Randian but he also recognized her for what she typified: counter-productive pride, forgetfulness of past orthodoxies, and lack of aesthetics among them. Like Rand and like the leaders of the Bolshevik party Anton was Jewish and had a very materialist and sensual worldview but also a very idealistic one. I think the lesson he learned from such people was not to fall into the error of extreme scientific reductionism - that things weren't so simplistic and black and white - that there are huge grey areas in the social sciences and in the human equation or the ultimate reality of the universe. Anton LaVey was a Satanic Lenin. He didn't just look like him. He was him - only better at it.

I'll move along now lest I start sounding like some sort of Satanic Reds ideologue who loves Anton LaVey.

Now . . .

It is unclear to me whether Anton LaVey believed in a literal Satan in one form or another or not. Was he an atheist? An agnostic? Was he engaged in some sort of Pascal's Wager? Was he more along the lines of Voltaire - was he a pantheist? Did he interpret the Satanic religion more along the lines of a Robespierre or a Rousseau - that is as some sort of civic religion along the lines of a Supreme Cult of the Human Being? Did he change his mind a lot? Was he confused about where he stood on the issue? Did he ever make up his mind? Nobody can quite be sure but I do think there's plenty of evidence that he was trying to some how "hedge his bets" in some direction or another. From some of the Barton letters that I have photocopies of such as the ones she sent to - or at least one of them - to Tani Jantsang then I would have to say that even among his later inner circle that these people too weren't so sure about where Anton stood on this issue.

I'm writing a book on Satanic history so I don't want to get too much into it here but I'll leave you all with this:

He deserves more respect, leeway, compassion, and celebration than any other religious (even if atheistic-religious) than any other figure in the history of the world with the exceptions of maybe the Buddha (who also founded an atheistic religion) and Aleister Crowley.

More later.

Eihwaz/Blake
 
Ultimately it doesn't matter who LaVey was, but only what he made.

Truth be told, if he didn't do what he did this forum, that forum, and pretty much every Satanic org(even the theistic ones that talk smack about him) wouldn't be here.
 

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
Personally I think Anton was just a man full of antics and potential but he preferred antics. I have never been fond of how he behaved in public or the alleged philosophy associated with him. As far as I am concerned he is a failure in what Satanism can be. He was an anti-theist who made a parody religion instead of making a true philosophy.
Hopefully he will stop being admired so much in death and Satanism could blossom.

. . . I guess I am a bit bias :D
 

Adramelek

Setian
Premium Member
My first introduction to Satanism was through Anton LaVey and the Church of Satan. When I was around 12 or 13 years old I was very interested in haunted houses, and I purchased a book entitled "More Haunted Houses". The first chapter of this book was called "House of Curses" which talked about the sort of urban legend of Anton LaVey and the actress Jane Mansfield, and the supposed curse LaVey placed upon her lawyer. Apparently the curse got out of hand and one night Mansfield, her lawyer and the driver of the cab they were in were all killed in a traffic accident. Supposedly the mansion that Mansfield owned at the time was haunted by her ghost. And when LaVey performed a funeral for her strange things happened during the ceremony, the lights would flicker off and on, and other happenings. I was just a kid, but was intrigued by the whole story, and it helped to inspire me to begin researching and studying, and eventually to practice certain concepts and aspects of Satanism, Black Magic, and the occult realms.
 
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Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
I have love/hate feelings towards him. On one hand, he helped to kick off the whole thing. On the other, I find his philosophy shallow and immature. I wish it was someone who had a better philosophy with some real meat to it that started this. LaVey, particularly in his later years, is the reason why 99% of Satanism is a joke, imo.
 

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
LaVey in the later years probably was just selling priesthoods and Satanic trappings. Satanism is probably pretty unique in that we reject our founders completely but are still here, but I'll give Aquino an exception because he's never doubled-back on anything he's said. The current Church of Satan is about making money and the real people doing anything mystical are probably the Temple of the Vampire folks, but what that has to do with CoS is beyond me other than half the people in ToV happen to be in CoS. =) Mind you I consider others as inspirational of Satanic thought that have nothing to do with Satanism... I read Crowley's work (which is written at a level only someone with a high IQ will ever understand -- others will probably see it as mostly insanity... haha) before I read anything on Satanism, Ragnar Redbeard, Sun Tzu, Robert Anton Wilson, and many more probably contributed to my life as much as LaVey personally did.
 
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