Were the four canonical gospels in the New Testament revealed?

[firedragon]

I do understand. And you are right, I can offer only a statement of faith. I cannot prove the truth of the Gospels to you, any more than I can prove the existence of God to an atheist.

As for the words of Matthew, or John, or of any other scripture including the Baghavad Gita or the Quran (of which, however, I do I admit my ignorance), I would argue that an individual can test the truth of these against the God Consciousness within us all.

Maybe this thread would be appropriate for your particular query about the Quran and the Bible.

Is the Quran the same as the Gospels, New Testament and the Bible at large (Its a Bahai claim)?

 

[Link]

You didnt respond to my query brother.

Brother, you are talking about man made invention of history and claims of people about history and you want to impose it on books from God and claims about that. Infancy Gospels are fabricated according to historians but more content of those is confirmed in Quran then even the cannon. Go figure.

 

[Link]

I never have and don't intend to ever study historical authenticity of Quran through historical means. I don't care for it. I won't know Quran is true on authority of historians even if they confirm it to be not distorted.

It doesn't matter to me. The same way, I approach all books that potentially can be divinely revealed by God.

Even if the book itself no one claims it to be from God, if it is from God, it's from God and can be known to be.

There is no need to study all these claims about authenticity, just read the text. If it's Nubuwa, it's proven to be from God. If not, it's not.

Simple.

 

[firedragon]

Brother, you are talking about man made invention of history and claims of people about history and you want to impose it on books from God and claims about that. Infancy Gospels are fabricated according to historians but more content of those is confirmed in Quran then even the cannon. Go figure.

Nope. I quoted manuscript evidence thinking you have studied it where you spoke of others who have not.

This thread is not about "Infancy Gospel" and though I know which infancy gospel you are referring to, it is not relevant. If you cannot be objective and address this particular subject its fine, just say so.

What you have basically done here is say that you have faith in the Gospels, and no history can invalidate it. But you yourself reject some of the text, embrace what you like. Its just an arbitrary thing you do.

Invalid. If that is your methodology, there is no point in any discussion. Your method is "because I say so", which is not a valid methodology.

Cheers.

 

[firedragon]

It doesn't matter to me.

Great.

Ciao.

 

[Link]

firedragon, the holy spirit confirms the Quran and previous books. Make of it what you will, but historians never have been and never will be reliable means to the religion of God.

 

[Link]

But you yourself reject some of the text, embrace what you like. Its just an arbitrary thing you do.

If a text is mostly from God with little of it distorted, we throw away all the signs and proofs from God because a little bit is distorted or do we embrace it all and mix the light with darkness that is fabricated?

Maybe this between stance I take has always been the proper way, to seek insights and light from God's word, but if distortion happens, not to mix truth with falsehood as to make everything light and dark the same.

Nubuwa is signs from God in form of speech. If some of it get's distorted, you don't throw it all away.

 

[firedragon]

firedragon, the holy spirit confirms the Quran and previous books. Make of it what you will, but historians never have been and never will be reliable means to the religion of God.

Nice.

If a text is mostly from God with little of it distorted, we throw away all the signs and proofs from God because a little bit is distorted or do we embrace it all and mix the light with darkness that is fabricated?

Maybe this between stance I take has always been the proper way, to seek insights and light from God's word, but if distortion happens, not to mix truth with falsehood as to make everything light and dark the same.

Nubuwa is signs from God in form of speech. If some of it get's distorted, you don't throw it all away.

Cheers.

 

[Link]

HOOF this is a tiring discussion, but, it's a pleasure talking to you firedragon.

I use to think Quran is the last book that has not been severely corrupted and only thing really from God (because I believed most of Bible is corrupted). But learning from Quran and studying other books with more insights and even knowing other texts aside from those cannon books claiming to be from God, it helps open your eyes.

There are severe corruptions in the Bible, but most of it is on point with the Quran. As for Gospels they are less distorted then the Torah.

 

[Link]

I just believe the proof is in the pudding approach. Without that approach, no people could've held on to the legacy of their Anbiya and Messengers.

 

[firedragon]

HOOF this is a tiring discussion, but, it's a pleasure talking to you firedragon.

I use to think Quran is the last book that has not been severely corrupted and only thing really from God (because I believed most of Bible is corrupted). But learning from Quran and studying other books with more insights and even knowing other texts aside from those cannon books claiming to be from God, it helps open your eyes.

There are severe corruptions in the Bible, but most of it is on point with the Quran. As for Gospels they are less distorted then the Torah.

I think you also might find this thread more appropriate.

Is the Quran the same as the Gospels, New Testament and the Bible at large (Its a Bahai claim)?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

In this topic which sprung up from another thread, I would like to see the evidence to why you would think the four canonical gospels are revealed by God.

I think you need to clarify what you mean by "revealed by God".
Regardless, for a person who believes Jesus was sent by God, to think, the Book that was left after Him is illegitimate, is illogical. Was God completely defeated? I mean, if Jesus was taken up to God, and also no proper Book was left after Him, then that means sending Jesus by God, was totally useless.

 

[firedragon]

I think you need to clarify what you mean by "revealed by God".

revealed by God.

Shoghi Effendi says the Quran is "revealed by God", so since the Bahai's say its the same, I use the same.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

revealed by God.

Shoghi Effendi says the Quran is "revealed by God", so since the Bahai's say its the same, I use the same.

When did the Bahais say, it is the same?
Bahais already quoted Shoghi Effendi on their difference.

 

[firedragon]

When did the Bahais say, it is the same?

If you claim "they are not the same', just say so.

So I asked you earlier, you never responded. Do you think they are the same in authenticity, or are they not?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

If you claim "they are not the same', just say so.

So I asked you earlier, you never responded. Do you think they are the same in authenticity, or are they not?

It was already quoted from Shoghi Effendi that the Bible is not the same authority.

In Bahai view, The Bible is truth as a whole. But it is not like every word in it is accurate.

Either way, what matters is in Bahai view, the Bible is legitimate and trustworthy.



You can think of it similar to authentic Hadithes.
Hadithes, if authentic, are a guidance. They are not considered a direct word of God, but, still guidance and truth.
Hope it is more clear.

 

[firedragon]

Regardless, for a person who believes Jesus was sent by God, to think, the Book that was left after Him is illegitimate, is illogical. Was God completely defeated? I mean, if Jesus was taken up to God, and also no proper Book was left after Him, then that means sending Jesus by God, was totally useless.

When you say "book", you mean a written down text? Who said Jesus had a text written down? Do you have any source for that?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

When you say "book", you mean a written down text? Who said Jesus had a text written down? Do you have any source for that?

I mean a Text that was the result of Revelation of Jesus. It doesn't mean, Jesus literally wrote it. I explained more in previous post.

 

[firedragon]

It was already quoted from Shoghi Effendi that the Bible is not the same authority.

Of course. You dont have to repeat it. Everyone knows that Effendi said very clearly the Quran is Gods revelation.

Bahais a lot of times go against Effendi and even Bahaullah when debating to serve their needs. So that's why they go on to say things like the Quran and the Bible are the same. Which is the reason I opened a new thread. So no need to repeat this again and again.

In Bahai view, The Bible is truth as a whole. But it is not like every word in it is accurate.

So your science is "Because we say so" when deriving which verse is authentic. So you pick and choose a prophecy or two to support Bahaullah and claim that is authentic. But have no methodology whatsoever.

 

[firedragon]

I mean a Text that was the result of Revelation of Jesus.

1. So who said there was a text which is the result of revelation of Jesus?
2. Also, by this statement do you mean Jesus revealed or God revealed through Jesus? You said "of Jesus" which is ambiguous.