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Featured We're all just cowards

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Tranquil Servant, Feb 17, 2019.

  1. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Focused Laser
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    People are busy and don't like rearranging their lives, so they don't go looking for reasons to.
     
  2. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Whats to be afraid of? Life is what it is. When it ends it ends.

    Seems to me the cowards are the ones trying to ensure they live forever because they are scared of death.
     
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  3. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    What people are cowards because they don't fall into your entrapment to question their faith.
    Just because people don't question their faith doesn't mean their cowards.

    No more than having the faith to flip a switch to turn a light on or off. Doesn't mean their cowards, because they don't question their faith whether the light comes on or off.

    Faith isn't something that you question, No more than to question your faith whether or not the light comes on or off at the flip of the switch.

    People flip the switch in having some sort of faith the light will come on or turn off at the flip of the switch.
    You walk up to the switch in faith that the light will come on or turn off at the flip of the switch.

    So you flip the switch and the light is burned out.
    But you had the faith that the light would come on or turn off in faith at the flip of the switch.

    So by my faith God is there, If I have to question my faith whether God is there or not, then what good is having faith in something if I have to question it.
    No more than question your faith every time you go to flip the switch whether the light will come on or off.
     
  4. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    I don't particularly enjoy being wrong, but being wrong has taught me far more than I lightly admit. I'm not 'afraid' of being wrong in the sense you suggest. To encounter an actual refutation of materialism, reasoned and demonstrated, would be an extraordinary moment, for instance; I'd be wholly fascinated.
    I'm not afraid of that either, at several levels. One is that the notion of a real supernatural is incoherent (and if it weren't, it'd be a self-contradiction).

    Another is that I don't want to 'live forever'. My sense of my own life-narrative ends with my death. I see no point in living forever without a body; all the pleasures of living come from biochemistry ─ love, curiosity, anger, competing, self-worth and so on ─ and a soul (an equally incoherent idea) would have no biochemistry.

    To this we can add Woody Allen's remark that eternity is a long time, especially towards the end. What will you say to your beloved on your fifty billionth anniversary to freshen things up?

    And for backstop, there's the old observation that if heaven is a just place, people who on balance have lived decent lives will have nothing to fear regardless of what they believed; and if heaven is not a just place, everyone's screwed regardless.
    I dare say everyone's freaked out / run away / not stepped forward / been overwhelmed at some stage. I don't think that means 'we're all cowards' ─ just that we're all human.
     
    #24 blü 2, Feb 17, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019
  5. Willamena

    Willamena Just me
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    Well, no, it's not a matter of fear. It's just common sense.
     
  6. Sapiens

    Sapiens Polymathematician

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    If you wish to classify that rather trivial and obvious observation as enlightenment ... well, that's rather shallow, don't you think?
     
  7. Jung

    Jung New Member

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    You raise a lot of legitimate questions. But I don't think you can chalk it all up to being fearful, or label everyone a coward. Anonymity feeds hostility. But is the hostility the real us? I think it is and that's a sad thing. Civility is a virtue that must be nurtured with self-control. I understand your frustration. Seems to me that there is enough animosity already in the world. But these forums offer a release of pent-up frustrations we all live with. So maybe it's not a bad thing.
     
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  8. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    Happy Year of the Pig to you!

    For me, a statement is true to the extent that it conforms with, corresponds with, accurately reflects, objective reality (the 'correspondence' view. One of its advantages is that it provides an objective test for what's true.

    How do you define 'truth'?
     
  9. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    No.
     
  10. Samantha Rinne

    Samantha Rinne Active Member

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    Good on most fronts except for what I just bolded. Atheists don't want a better place, from what I understand. They care about this life, their wealth/power/success, and desperately try to ignore this reality:
    1. If you die and there is no afterlife, everything you do is wiped out. This does seem comforting as it seems to free you from guilt. But actually, rather than living life to the fullest, it ultimately condemns you to a life of apathy, as anything you strive for is gone, only a worthless life where you don't work for anything is made better by the lack of even the worst afterlife. But it doesn't end there. If you do not believe in the world beyond, you believe in the world. You're stuck because not only do you have the above angst, but everyone from schoolteachers, to bosses, to kings, to those Christians you have misgivings about can lay a judgement call on your life and your entire life must consist of defending the worth of your life. This is what secular people (and many Christians, esp the works doctrine) have to deal with. But this isn't what Christianity is really about. This is how the secular world measures us. Our grades, our credentials, our previous jobs. Never our intrinsic worth. This is the path to suicide.
    2. If you die and there is an afterlife, and everything you believe about how evil Christians are, you will be punished by the god you rejected.
    3. If you want to actually not be afraid of what comes after, you must therefore believe in a God that not only has an afterlife but also gives Grace. Are religious people still afraid they are wrong? Yes! But they are able to believe in something beyond this life and the endless judgements of other people, the pointless and callous nature of this world.
     
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  11. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    Are they not afraid?..... afraid to believe in something that can't be proven.... afraid to be wrong..... afraid that one day they will die but have no hope for a "better place".... afraid that if they do die and a God does exist, no amount of proof or scientific words will help them.

    It is not a matter of me being afraid to believe in something without verifiable evidence, I'm simply not capable of genuine belief in anything for which there isn't verifiable evidence. You act as if belief is a switch in your mind that you can choose to switch on or switch off at will. For some of us belief is all based upon verifiable evidence.

    Why should I be afraid of dying? It just means that I will no longer exist. I don't recall being afraid before I was born, so I have no reason to believe that there's anything to fear after I die. If you are living your life hoping for some 'better place' after you die then you're not fully appreciating just how wondrously fantastic this life can be.

    And if by some miracle I DO meet a god after I die, I see absolutely no reason to fear such a possibility. After all, if it's a genuine creator god then it will already know that it created me so that I require verifiable evidence before I can believe in something and will also know that I was never presented with any such evidence during the course of my lifetime.
     
  12. Windwalker

    Windwalker Integralist
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    And to you as well. I've yet to go the Tai Chi studio I go to yet this year, but I know they have the new banners up. :)

    The problem of course with this is whose model are we finding evidence for?

    That which speaks life. Not speculations.
     
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  13. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    When I flip the light switch it isn't faith that makes me confident that the light will come on. I'm confident because of past experience and my knowledge that unless there's a power failure or the bulb burns out, the laws of physics ensure that the light will come on every time. Faith has nothing to do with it.
     
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  14. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    What test will tell us whether something 'speaks life' or not?
     
  15. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    "no one person is better than anyone else so ppl shouldn't be so hostile towards one another"

    I agree that we shouldn't be so hostile towards one another. We are all human beings.
    Regards
     
  16. Notanumber

    Notanumber A Free Man

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    Religions are based on fear but you do not need a religion if you have a moral compass.
     
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  17. Windwalker

    Windwalker Integralist
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    Viability. Does it produce fruit? Does it promote life?
     
  18. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    Nope. Afraid of what?

    We like it to be proven wrong. That is how science advances.

    Oh no. I don’t think we should fear Apollo, if He really exists and we see him after our death.

    i am a bit afraid every year to not get my Christmas presents on account of my disbelief for Santa, but until now He does not seem to be offended by me not believing in Him.

    Ciao

    - viole
     
  19. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    I can't say my experiences parallel those of the OP, but if I follow their observations in spirit, it doesn't seem to me that cowardice is the conclusion that comes out of the narrative. Ego and identity, however, do. Humans are myth makers, and many of the tales we spin center on ourselves: who we are, how we relate to others, what we value, and so forth. While we enjoy exploration of this frontier, we don't tend to enjoy its deconstruction. It is a negation of the value and meaning of the self and our very purpose and existence. Is it cowardice to be uncomfortable when you face existential threats? I don't think so.
     
  20. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    See "Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia"
     
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