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We will become gods

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Ultimately, adherents of transhumanism envisage a day when humans will free themselves of all corporeal restraints. Kurzweil and his followers believe this turning point will be reached around the year 2030, when biotechnology will enable a union between humans and genuinely intelligent computers and AI systems. The resulting human-machine mind will become free to roam a universe of its own creation, uploading itself at will on to a “suitably powerful computational substrate”
No death and an enhanced life: Is the future transhuman?

This after having watched the Sci-Fi Thriller "Upgrade".
Where an AI plots to become human. Has no moral issue about killing a bunch of humans in order to accomplish this goal.
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/upgrade_2018/
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/upgrade_2018/

Regardless of any fears about a rogue AI taking over, destroying man as an obsolete species, I suspect we will continue to invest and integrate into robotics and AI. I think we will need to integrate/partner with AI so we don't become obsolete as a species. While the possible risks exist, I don't think we've much choice.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Ultimately, adherents of transhumanism envisage a day when humans will free themselves of all corporeal restraints. Kurzweil and his followers believe this turning point will be reached around the year 2030, when biotechnology will enable a union between humans and genuinely intelligent computers and AI systems. The resulting human-machine mind will become free to roam a universe of its own creation, uploading itself at will on to a “suitably powerful computational substrate”
No death and an enhanced life: Is the future transhuman?


This after having watched the Sci-Fi Thriller "Upgrade".
Where an AI plots to become human. Has no moral issue about killing a bunch of humans in order to accomplish this goal.
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/upgrade_2018/

Regardless of any fears about a rogue AI taking over, destroying man as an obsolete species, I suspect we will continue to invest and integrate into robotics and AI. I think we will need to integrate/partner with AI so we don't become obsolete as a species. While the possible risks exist, I don't think we've much choice.
This sounds like rubbish to me. 2030 is only 12 years from now.

What is meant by this idea of becoming obsolete as a species? Is a cockroach obsolete as a species? If not why would mankind be?

Or is this just a fancy way of recycling the Terminator idea of a dystopian future in which the machines have taken over?
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
The modern takes on the Abrahamic salvation myth are as fascinating to me as they are distasteful. There's reasons why I don't find Abrahamic mythos inspiring. Their utter failure to value that which we have and that which is supposedly "lesser" is among them.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
This sounds like rubbish to me. 2030 is only 12 years from now.

What is meant by this idea of becoming obsolete as a species? Is a cockroach obsolete as a species? If not why would mankind be?

Apparently cockroaches still have a purpose.
What If There Were No Cockroaches?

Man has a lot of flaws, weaknesses. Perhaps morality is a flaw. This idea of right or wrong based on feelings. Obsolete just means there is a better superior version. Autonomous car would make human drivers obsolete. Machines that can cook, make coffee don't need to be paid, fed, housed, given breaks.

Or is this just a fancy way of recycling the Terminator idea of a dystopian future in which the machines have taken over?

I think this is a fear that will cause resistance to AI and robotics. However humans are pretty accepting of the technology we already possess. I suspect this will gradually happen, maybe not by the year 2030. Probably not in my lifetime, but I think it is inevitable. Humanity will want the benefits of AI and robotics ignoring the risks.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
The modern takes on the Abrahamic salvation myth are as fascinating to me as they are distasteful. There's reasons why I don't find Abrahamic mythos inspiring. Their utter failure to value that which we have and that which is supposedly "lesser" is among them.

You are right, but it's so much a part of my culture, it's hard not to see parallels. However I think if man achieves any type of immortality it will be through technology, not religion.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
You are right, but it's so much a part of my culture, it's hard not to see parallels. However I think if man achieves any type of immortality it will be through technology, not religion.

I see the desire to attain immortality through technology as a fundamentally religious impetus, so it isn't a "this not that" in my eyes. It's all about escape, or being saved from something undesirable... a hallmark religious narrative in western culture. Apparently, finding meaningfulness in the here and now isn't good enough, so some religions weave meaningfulness through promises of escape or happy afterlives. The technofantasy plays into that same sort of thing. Not a fan.
Doubly not a fan because such ideas are basically heretical to my own religion - a religion grounded in science and ecology that accepts limits are not only important, but necessary.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Ultimately, adherents of transhumanism envisage a day when humans will free themselves of all corporeal restraints. Kurzweil and his followers believe this turning point will be reached around the year 2030, when biotechnology will enable a union between humans and genuinely intelligent computers and AI systems. The resulting human-machine mind will become free to roam a universe of its own creation, uploading itself at will on to a “suitably powerful computational substrate”
No death and an enhanced life: Is the future transhuman?


This after having watched the Sci-Fi Thriller "Upgrade".
Where an AI plots to become human. Has no moral issue about killing a bunch of humans in order to accomplish this goal.
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/upgrade_2018/

Regardless of any fears about a rogue AI taking over, destroying man as an obsolete species, I suspect we will continue to invest and integrate into robotics and AI. I think we will need to integrate/partner with AI so we don't become obsolete as a species. While the possible risks exist, I don't think we've much choice.
Better hurry and get something done. Not much time left.
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
Ultimately, adherents of transhumanism envisage a day when humans will free themselves of all corporeal restraints. Kurzweil and his followers believe this turning point will be reached around the year 2030, when biotechnology will enable a union between humans and genuinely intelligent computers and AI systems. The resulting human-machine mind will become free to roam a universe of its own creation, uploading itself at will on to a “suitably powerful computational substrate”
No death and an enhanced life: Is the future transhuman?


This after having watched the Sci-Fi Thriller "Upgrade".
Where an AI plots to become human. Has no moral issue about killing a bunch of humans in order to accomplish this goal.
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/upgrade_2018/

Regardless of any fears about a rogue AI taking over, destroying man as an obsolete species, I suspect we will continue to invest and integrate into robotics and AI. I think we will need to integrate/partner with AI so we don't become obsolete as a species. While the possible risks exist, I don't think we've much choice.

Not worried. AI will only advance at the rate of our ability to understand AI, because we are the ones creating it.
 

Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
Ultimately, adherents of transhumanism envisage a day when humans will free themselves of all corporeal restraints. Kurzweil and his followers believe this turning point will be reached around the year 2030, when biotechnology will enable a union between humans and genuinely intelligent computers and AI systems. The resulting human-machine mind will become free to roam a universe of its own creation, uploading itself at will on to a “suitably powerful computational substrate”
No death and an enhanced life: Is the future transhuman?


This after having watched the Sci-Fi Thriller "Upgrade".
Where an AI plots to become human. Has no moral issue about killing a bunch of humans in order to accomplish this goal.
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/upgrade_2018/

Regardless of any fears about a rogue AI taking over, destroying man as an obsolete species, I suspect we will continue to invest and integrate into robotics and AI. I think we will need to integrate/partner with AI so we don't become obsolete as a species. While the possible risks exist, I don't think we've much choice.


I'm sort of ducking my head because of what I am about to say. Saying this as an X-Mormon, their belief, as I understand it is that individuals who reach the Celestial Kingdom, if they meet certain other conditions, will become Gods. John 1:12 But to as many as received him, gave he the power to become sons of God.

I have issue with that passage because I want it to say "Sons and Daughters of God". AND, I will not accept that any of that will make any one of us better than God. Think on what got Lucifer cast down out of Heaven.

To those who wonder my I am an Xmo, their leadership wanted to continue to hold my feet to the fire over a sin that I did not commit and my participation in it was unwilling. And, NO, "I am not ready to make nice" over that issue. I am asking any Mormon who seeks to correct me on this issue to please be nice.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
I see the desire to attain immortality through technology as a fundamentally religious impetus, so it isn't a "this not that" in my eyes. It's all about escape, or being saved from something undesirable... a hallmark religious narrative in western culture. Apparently, finding meaningfulness in the here and now isn't good enough, so some religions weave meaningfulness through promises of escape or happy afterlives. The technofantasy plays into that same sort of thing. Not a fan. Doubly not a fan because such ideas are basically heretical to my own religion - a religion grounded in science and ecology that accepts limits are not only important, but necessary.
Very insightful, but on first reading this I found myself disagreeing with your generalisation about religion in Western culture, even though my own religious tradition is Christian. So I asked myself why.

One cannot disagree that one of the recurring themes of Christianity is that virtue in this life will be rewarded in the next. So objectively speaking you are right, I'm sure. However I suspect there may be many like me, who are sceptical about the promise of a next life and think that when we die it's probably just worms. Nevertheless people like me continue to draw inspiration and comfort from the teaching and example of Christ and the saints, as told in the gospels and the thought and history of the church down the ages. I have no information on how common such sentiments may be among followers of Western religions, but one thing I have learnt over my lifetime is that one is almost never alone in one's views.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
In fairness, there are some gems in the "happy afterlife" mythos that seem to be absent in the technofantasy version of it. In particular, there are usually conditions attached to reaching this happy afterlife attached to the religious tradition such that good behavior is encouraged. Personal character matters in order to be "saved" in most of these traditions. The same cannot be said of the technofantasy. In fact, all one needs to reach bliss is a big enough wallet. One could be the most narcissistic $#^% bag on the planet and still attain technofantasy salvation. I think that makes the narrative particularly dangerous. More dangerous than the conventional religious narratives.

I read an article pointing this out once... let's see if I can dig it up. Ah... here we are. This article describes the attitude of the folks pining for technological immortality. And what it would really mean for most of us (a short excerpt):

That’s when it hit me: At least as far as these gentlemen were concerned, this was a talk about the future of technology. Taking their cue from Elon Musk colonizing Mars, Peter Thiel reversing the aging process, or Sam Altman and Ray Kurzweil uploading their minds into supercomputers, they were preparing for a digital future that had a whole lot less to do with making the world a better place than it did with transcending the human condition altogether and insulating themselves from a very real and present danger of climate change, rising sea levels, mass migrations, global pandemics, nativist panic, and resource depletion. For them, the future of technology is really about just one thing: escape.
Survival of the Richest – Future Human – Medium
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
In fairness, there are some gems in the "happy afterlife" mythos that seem to be absent in the technofantasy version of it. In particular, there are usually conditions attached to reaching this happy afterlife attached to the religious tradition such that good behavior is encouraged. Personal character matters in order to be "saved" in most of these traditions. The same cannot be said of the technofantasy. In fact, all one needs to reach bliss is a big enough wallet. One could be the most narcissistic $#^% bag on the planet and still attain technofantasy salvation. I think that makes the narrative particularly dangerous. More dangerous than the conventional religious narratives.

I read an article pointing this out once... let's see if I can dig it up. Ah... here we are. This article describes the attitude of the folks pining for technological immortality. And what it would really mean for most of us (a short excerpt):

That’s when it hit me: At least as far as these gentlemen were concerned, this was a talk about the future of technology. Taking their cue from Elon Musk colonizing Mars, Peter Thiel reversing the aging process, or Sam Altman and Ray Kurzweil uploading their minds into supercomputers, they were preparing for a digital future that had a whole lot less to do with making the world a better place than it did with transcending the human condition altogether and insulating themselves from a very real and present danger of climate change, rising sea levels, mass migrations, global pandemics, nativist panic, and resource depletion. For them, the future of technology is really about just one thing: escape.
Survival of the Richest – Future Human – Medium
Yes it makes one shudder. Sort of "Omega Man" on stilts. (That was really about Charlton Heston protecting himself from the blacks - Trump probably loves it.)

What I would suggest is that the guidance for living contained in these religions can be persuasive on its own, even without the carrot of eternal life.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
I'm sort of ducking my head because of what I am about to say. Saying this as an X-Mormon, their belief, as I understand it is that individuals who reach the Celestial Kingdom, if they meet certain other conditions, will become Gods. John 1:12 But to as many as received him, gave he the power to become sons of God.

I have issue with that passage because I want it to say "Sons and Daughters of God". AND, I will not accept that any of that will make any one of us better than God. Think on what got Lucifer cast down out of Heaven.

To those who wonder my I am an Xmo, their leadership wanted to continue to hold my feet to the fire over a sin that I did not commit and my participation in it was unwilling. And, NO, "I am not ready to make nice" over that issue. I am asking any Mormon who seeks to correct me on this issue to please be nice.
I'll PM you, Ellen.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Ultimately, adherents of transhumanism envisage a day when humans will free themselves of all corporeal restraints. Kurzweil and his followers believe this turning point will be reached around the year 2030, when biotechnology will enable a union between humans and genuinely intelligent computers and AI systems. The resulting human-machine mind will become free to roam a universe of its own creation, uploading itself at will on to a “suitably powerful computational substrate”
No death and an enhanced life: Is the future transhuman?
I've got just one comment at this moment, which would be this: If you stop to think of how all life started -- as a single-celled organism -- and that if human beings have ultimately evolved into what we are today, the idea that we may eventually become gods makes perfect sense. There's a caveat to this, though, in my view. None of it happened without the direction of a Higher Power, and where we as human beings may end up will also be the result of it being part of that Higher Power's plan.
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
Ultimately, adherents of transhumanism envisage a day when humans will free themselves of all corporeal restraints. Kurzweil and his followers believe this turning point will be reached around the year 2030, when biotechnology will enable a union between humans and genuinely intelligent computers and AI systems. The resulting human-machine mind will become free to roam a universe of its own creation, uploading itself at will on to a “suitably powerful computational substrate”
No death and an enhanced life: Is the future transhuman?


This after having watched the Sci-Fi Thriller "Upgrade".
Where an AI plots to become human. Has no moral issue about killing a bunch of humans in order to accomplish this goal.
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/upgrade_2018/

Regardless of any fears about a rogue AI taking over, destroying man as an obsolete species, I suspect we will continue to invest and integrate into robotics and AI. I think we will need to integrate/partner with AI so we don't become obsolete as a species. While the possible risks exist, I don't think we've much choice.

The reality is immortal now. Why imagine a past or a future?
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
I've got just one comment at this moment, which would be this: If you stop to think of how all life started -- as a single-celled organism -- and that if human beings have ultimately evolved into what we are today, the idea that we may eventually become gods makes perfect sense. There's a caveat to this, though, in my view. None of it happened without the direction of a Higher Power, and where we as human beings may end up will also be the result of it being part of that Higher Power's plan.

While I'm not going to disagree, I'll wait for evidence of said higher power. I can personally speculate about all sort of causes. Lacking collaborating evidence, one person's speculation is as good as another's.
 
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