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"We don't know" - why can't religions except that?
- Thread starter Altfish
- Start date
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Im assuming because scientist know how to admit they dont know and deminstrate why while some religious cant explain why they dont know and feel, because it is the nature of life, the topic is such extreme importance we dont have to know it in full for it to be true.
Basically, some religious feel because the subject is the nature of the universe, they have no reason to question its validity if they believe its true.
While scientist may try to test the nature of the universe, but because they dont see their tests as answers to everything, they are able to say "I dont know" while some religious cant say that.
If it wasnt about the nature of life, then maybe some religious may say "I believe this is true but I dont know" but the importance they put on it seems to dictate how much they know based on the source/s they use and whether to question that source or not.
My take.
Altfish
Veteran Member
What came before the Big Bang?
or if you prefer...How did the Universe start?
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Why can't atheists accept there non-position? How can so many atheists be sure that there are no deities? If they aren't sure , why are they arguing, for the position, that there aren't?/ deities
One of the main functions of religions is to provide a value-based framework for navigating the world around us, particularly with respect to finding and making our lives meaningful. If a religion isn't creating meaningfulness - if it isn't providing a narrative that relates us to the world around us in deep, profound, emotional ways - then it isn't doing it's job. Put another way, if there isn't a story to address something in a given religion, that's a hole that can't be left empty; some sort of story has to be told to make meaning out of it. Succinctly, religions are in the business of creative storytelling. Sciences, on the other hand, are not. The sciences impartially and objectively observe what is around us, and actively avoid making meaning out of it or enhancing it with creative storytelling. Gaps in the story are thus not an issue for the sciences, because it doesn't care about providing meaningfulness which adds emotional depth to our lives and helps us relate to the world around us on a day-to-day basis.
All this said, I think there's a salient question that needs to be asked here, as this issue easily transcends religion: why do humans in general feel the need to have an answer for everything (because they do - and religion merely reflects that need)?
All this said, I think there's a salient question that needs to be asked here, as this issue easily transcends religion: why do humans in general feel the need to have an answer for everything (because they do - and religion merely reflects that need)?
McBell
Resident Sourpuss
not all atheists make that argument.
some of use simply do not believe either way.
Interesting how you went out of your way to post in this thread, yet did not address the OP in any way.
Why is that?
Having answers for everything is an itch that some lesser religions specifically aim to scratch.
It taps into certain anxieties.
That is neither an accurate nor a relevant question to ask in this thread.
Some of us don't think the answers are made up. We believe advanced souls and people in transcendent states have truly seen beyond the borders of current materialist science.
As Lovecraft observed:
"The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown."
For some people, the unknown is exciting. But for many, many others, the unknown is terrifying, sometimes to panic-inducing degrees. Appropriately enough, I don't know why; the unknown just doesn't bother me that much (which isn't necessarily a positive trait; it can cause me to be very gullible if something seems slightly off, but I just let it go because whatever.)
Then again, probably because I'm on the autistic spectrum, when things are unpredictable, or expected patterns are broken, I become far more prone to anxiety and panic attacks. I'm not sure that's quite the same thing, but I'm sure it's related.
One thing's for sure, though: people don't like incomplete things. We, as a species, like things to be "complete." When left incomplete, our brains don't let them go. When this comes to gaps in knowledge, if we as individuals lack the ability to go see for ourselves, we could end up filling them with whatever, just to cope. When it comes to things like the wider universe, it's all locked behind arcane formulas, strange symbols, foreign words, and the most counter-intuitive claims imaginable.
"The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown."
For some people, the unknown is exciting. But for many, many others, the unknown is terrifying, sometimes to panic-inducing degrees. Appropriately enough, I don't know why; the unknown just doesn't bother me that much (which isn't necessarily a positive trait; it can cause me to be very gullible if something seems slightly off, but I just let it go because whatever.)
Then again, probably because I'm on the autistic spectrum, when things are unpredictable, or expected patterns are broken, I become far more prone to anxiety and panic attacks. I'm not sure that's quite the same thing, but I'm sure it's related.
One thing's for sure, though: people don't like incomplete things. We, as a species, like things to be "complete." When left incomplete, our brains don't let them go. When this comes to gaps in knowledge, if we as individuals lack the ability to go see for ourselves, we could end up filling them with whatever, just to cope. When it comes to things like the wider universe, it's all locked behind arcane formulas, strange symbols, foreign words, and the most counter-intuitive claims imaginable.
Geoff-Allen
Resident megalomaniac
I think there are unanswered questions no mater WHAT you believe.
If you are an atheist, you have to wonder how-on-earth the extraordinary complexity & diversity of life arose simply "chance".
If you are a believer in God, you have to wrestle with the question of how can evil exist if an all-loving creator made us.
That's just off-the-top-of-my-head ...
All the best!
If you are an atheist, you have to wonder how-on-earth the extraordinary complexity & diversity of life arose simply "chance".
If you are a believer in God, you have to wrestle with the question of how can evil exist if an all-loving creator made us.
That's just off-the-top-of-my-head ...
All the best!
Unless you researched the matter, that is.
There are genuine unanswered questions for atheists, but that one does not quite make the list. Nor for theists, come to think of it.
Altfish
Veteran Member
Actually, that is one thing we don't wonder about, the Theory of Evolution clearly explains that. Chance is only a small part of it, mutation and selection are the main drivers
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
Well, not really. Evolution answers that question perfectly well.
However, as to the OP, I think it is perhaps unfair to categorize religions as necessarily always denying the absence of knowledge. It is true that it appears as a common argument on these forums, but I'm sure there are plenty of religious ideologies which at least teach the value of logical humility and accepting the limits of your own knowledge. Still, it is a curiosity how often the statement "I don't know" simply isn't considered acceptable in certain discussions.
Milton Platt
Well-Known Member
Well, not all atheists say there are no deities, some say you have not provided adequate evidence for such an extraordinary claim to show that they do exist. They argue for their positions because theists/deists, etc. want them to believe the deities do exist. They want those believers to demonstrate why these things exist. If nobody ever tried to say they did, then there would be no reason to argue otherwise, would there?
But to their point, what we know about the physical world tends to counter what religions want us to believe. Also, there is a very obvious lack of good evidence to support the existence of deities. And counter to what some may say, absence of evidence is indeed often evidence of absence.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I think it's just a natural tendency to at least feel your on top of things through determinism coinciding with that of the feeling your in some form of control as to how one goes about determining numerous things in life. Sometimes prematurely without facts which can be obvious.
Whatever it takes to remain as comfortable as possible in a reality of uncertainty and mystery seems to remain paramount rather than actuality, and many religions follow just that.
Taylor Seraphim
Angel of Reason
Because many use religion because they are scared of the unknown so they find comfort in having answers (even if they are false ones).
Taylor Seraphim
Angel of Reason
Some atheist argue that but the atheist that think that way are being illogical.
Most atheist are technically agnostic atheist where we say. "I am not sure whether or not there is a deity but there probably is not."
Now atheist can argue against the existence of particular deities as they often cannot exist based on what we know about the world but that is not the same thing as what you where speaking about.
Taylor Seraphim
Angel of Reason
And why do you believe that?