We discuss homosexuality here quite often, and I was wondering...

[standing_on_one_foot]

And you intend to tell people who they are, then?

 

[Pah]

Has it been found that some people with a relatively smaller gamete have female bodies, or that some with a larger one have male bodies?

Yes - that would be a feminine male in the first case and a masculine female in the second. All regardless of orientation.

-pah-

 

[Pah]

We're all going to "get over it". The question is how we are solving the problem. We need to address the root of the problem instead of dancing around it and feeding into the illusion. The root of the problem is that we don't know who we are.

Speak for yourself - I know exactly who I am.

-pah-

 

[Pah]

What... a baby born with both sex organs? Hermaphrodite?

Thats understandable for correctional surgery. But the question is about sex changing.

Sex is NOT defined by the body but by the relative size of the gamete. That will never change.

Are you sure you've read and understood the definitions?

-pah-

 

[Paraprakrti]

And you intend to tell people who they are, then?

I have been saying all along. At least understand that you are not your body, or your mind. Both body and mind are external coverings. I don't expect everyone to accept this. But perhaps some will come to understand what I am talking about.

 

[Paraprakrti]

Yes - that would be a feminine male in the first case and a masculine female in the second. All regardless of orientation.

-pah-

What exactly does the gamete constitute? Apparently it is what it is regardless of the physical body. Is it what makes one feel masculine or feminine? If so, how has this been shown to be the fact?

 

[Paraprakrti]

Speak for yourself - I know exactly who I am.

-pah-

Then you know that you are spirit-soul. You are not the body. In that case, why do you focus on transgender topics knowing that they are insignificant to the transcendental fact?

 

[Paraprakrti]

Transgendered is having a gender adverse to the external morphology of the body

Understood. My problem is I am unaware of what it is that determines gender. Apparently its a mental thing and the gamete has something to do with it. I was under the impression, from the dictionary definition of gamete, that the gamete also constitutes the physical body. Can you give me an example of when it hasn't?

Gender is the expression of sexual identity in a cultural context and is termed masculine or feminine. Male and female is reserved for the sex of the individual and is only determined by the relative size of the gametes, the larger being a female.

Male and female is reserved for the sex. What is the sex? If gender is the expression of sexual identity, then is sex the physical body?
Ok, from what I am gathering now you are saying that the gamete constitutes male or female, not masculine or feminine. So the gender has nothing to do with the gamete, but the sex does. And since the gender is the mentality of sexual identity, then I assume that the sex is the physicality. I misunderstood before thinking that the gamete had to do with the expression of sexual identity.

Sexual orientation for the transgendered is in consenence with gender identity regardless of the body's form.

-pah-

Is it?
I was hoping to find out that maybe I am a lesbian trapped in a man's body. Perhaps my gender is female, but I am nevertheless attracted to other females. I think this is highly possible.

 

[Paraprakrti]

I can see things a little better now...


I think the flaw here is in thinking that the subtle body (mind) is determined by some type of physiological condition. It isn't. I can accept that the subtle mind carries conceptions that favor masculinity over femininity, or vice verse. The mind is superior to the body, but the self is transcendental to the mind. The real focus should be on that which transcends gender, not transgender. If you want to fix the problem then you are looking for knowledge of the soul, no matter what the problem may be.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

How are we defining male and female? By what one desires? One feels like a man, that makes them a man? Ok, I feel like a blue whale. I find it disheartening that people don't treat me as a blue whale.

Actually, that sparks an interesting thought. There's the concept that a person's power animal is simply whatever animal that they were first incarnated as. Therefore, their spirit, no matter what form they're currently in, has the attributes and sense of that first animal. Unless they were first incarnated as a human, they're going to feel 'wrong' if they're in a human body, no matter what happens.

Since I don't think gender defines who a person is, at first I didn't understand the concept of being transgendered. Then, I thought, what if the technology existed to give me a choice of becoming my power animal? No question there. I would do anything to become physically what I am mentally. Since, mentally and spiritually, I am not a human, as you were joking, Paraprakrti, "I find it disheartening" that I am not treated as my mind and spirt would be treated. Not literally, of course, but it would be reaffirming to be recognized for what I am. And that's the link I made to the transgendered issue.

If a person can be physically recognized for what they are, spiritually and mentally, why wouldn't they want to do so?

 

[Quoth The Raven]

This is merely material activity and designation external to the self. The self is not male or female, but it does take shelter in a body that is. The fact that we are wasting human intelligence to seek ways of altering one's physical gender shows how lost we are.

And taking shelter in a body that is either male or female affects the nature of the self.
For those of you that watched Angel when it was on, this analogy will make sense. Ilyria was confined by a human body, even though she was not deigned to inhabit such an essentially flimsy shell. Her 'self' was- and in fact HAD to be - limited in many ways due to the limitations of the shell.
Couldn't you view gender reassignment as a journey undertaken to teach the self something it needs to learn to progress?

 

[Pah]

Then you know that you are spirit-soul. You are not the body. In that case, why do you focus on transgender topics knowing that they are insignificant to the transcendental fact?

The transcendental is not part of my being nor do I have a soul/spirit or anything resembling what others have said that attribute is. I focus on all sexuality not just the transgendered. Why? Because that is intregal to being alive - being alive provides certain rights - rights are recognized and protected within my country by law. And I am pledged to seeing the law apply to everyone. I live in the here-and-now. If one does not take care of the present and recognize the equality of everyone, then anything "transcendental" is meaningless.

-pah-

 

[standing_on_one_foot]

I was hoping to find out that maybe I am a lesbian trapped in a man's body. Perhaps my gender is female, but I am nevertheless attracted to other females. I think this is highly possible.

Interstingly enough, this does happen. It's not uncommon, I think. And then there are transgendered people who are bisexual, too.

Well, to sum up my feelings on the matter, I don't think it's right to tell people who they should be. Deciding that they're just crazy, or confused, or lost, or whatever and trying to fix them seems to me a little like telling gay people that they're just confused, they're really straight, and instead of living as they want to live, they should get help to be normal. It just doesn't seem right to me.

Paraprakrti, a question. Are you, how shall I put this, actively opposed to people being transgendered, or do you just think it's kinda silly, but what they do is up to them? Just curious about that.

 

[Paraprakrti]

Actually, that sparks an interesting thought. There's the concept that a person's power animal is simply whatever animal that they were first incarnated as. Therefore, their spirit, no matter what form they're currently in, has the attributes and sense of that first animal. Unless they were first incarnated as a human, they're going to feel 'wrong' if they're in a human body, no matter what happens.

Power animal?... Fight Club? lol...

I think it is a blessing to feel wrong in any body. Then one has good reason to study the soul.

Since I don't think gender defines who a person is, at first I didn't understand the concept of being transgendered. Then, I thought, what if the technology existed to give me a choice of becoming my power animal? No question there. I would do anything to become physically what I am mentally. Since, mentally and spiritually, I am not a human, as you were joking, Paraprakrti, "I find it disheartening" that I am not treated as my mind and spirt would be treated. Not literally, of course, but it would be reaffirming to be recognized for what I am. And that's the link I made to the transgendered issue.

Ok, lets leave the mind out of this for a second because the mind is also an external covering of the soul. The soul itself is transcendental. To satisfy the soul is to understand its constitutional position and to act in that position. The soul is carried in this world by the subtle body (mind, intelligence and false ego) by its various conceptions of life. That is somewhat what determines the body one gets. I could speculate that perhaps a woman dies thinking of a man she loved and so the soul takes shelter in the body of a man, but yet still has a tendency to be feminine. Nevertheless, the soul transcends the mind. So my proposition is that people stop wasting time and try to understand who they are as spiritual beings. This doesn't just go for transexuals. This is for everyone. People are too caught up in materialistic life. Materialisticness does not solve the materialistic problem. People are just feeding the flame.

If a person can be physically recognized for what they are, spiritually and mentally, why wouldn't they want to do so?

No, they are not being recognized for what they are spiritually. And there is no question of what they are in any other capacity because everyone is spirit-soul. We are not the body nor the mind. The fact that people have created facilities to alter the general appearance (keyword: appearance; aka: maya, aka: illusion) of the body shows how much people are blinded by falsities.

 

[Paraprakrti]

And taking shelter in a body that is either male or female affects the nature of the self.
For those of you that watched Angel when it was on, this analogy will make sense. Ilyria was confined by a human body, even though she was not deigned to inhabit such an essentially flimsy shell. Her 'self' was- and in fact HAD to be - limited in many ways due to the limitations of the shell.
Couldn't you view gender reassignment as a journey undertaken to teach the self something it needs to learn to progress?

The body does not affect the nature of the soul. That is a common misconception. The soul has nothing to do with the body, its inner workings nor its sensual interactions. The soul animates the body to the capacity that that body can be animated. Also note that there are two bodies, gross and subtle. The gross body is the flesh, bones, fat, muscle, blood, etc, etc. The subte body is the mind, intelligence and false ego. The soul reflects its transcendental consciousness only to the capacity of the subtle mind, which is determined by the gross body. In other words, the consciousness is condensed to the capacity of the subtle body while the subtle body is condensed to the capacity of the gross body (particularly the brain). That is why we have various living entities with various levels of consciousness. Nevertheless, the soul is the same in each and every living entity. And the soul itself is not affected. It is like oil poured in water. Oil does not mix with water, it sits on top. Similarly, the soul does not mix with the gross or subtle body. The soul is the basic spark that animates the body, but it has nothing to do with it from that point on. These very words I am typing to you start as a desire in the subtle mind then come as impulses sent from my brain in order for my fingers to interact with the letters on this keyboard. All the while, the soul is never wrapped up in all this activity. The soul is what set the chain of events off, though it has nothing to do with the events themselves.

 

[Paraprakrti]

The transcendental is not part of my being nor do I have a soul/spirit or anything resembling what others have said that attribute is. I focus on all sexuality not just the transgendered. Why? Because that is intregal to being alive - being alive provides certain rights - rights are recognized and protected within my country by law. And I am pledged to seeing the law apply to everyone. I live in the here-and-now. If one does not take care of the present and recognize the equality of everyone, then anything "transcendental" is meaningless.

-pah-

Being alive is one thing, but being conscious and ignoring what it implies is another. That is what you are doing. Every *one* is equal, spiritually. Everyone is not equal materially. Some people have to get operations to make themselves feel more equal. Therefore material equality is a fleshy dream of corpses. If you had knowledge of the soul then you would have true equality. But you ignore it despite the evidence of consciousness. You are the spokesperson for the masses in this age. "Let me satisfy my material senses first, then I'll worry about the soul." Oblivious, no one is ever finally satisfied with sense gratification.

 

[Paraprakrti]

Interstingly enough, this does happen. It's not uncommon, I think. And then there are transgendered people who are bisexual, too.

It doesn't happen according to Pah's definition.

Well, to sum up my feelings on the matter, I don't think it's right to tell people who they should be. Deciding that they're just crazy, or confused, or lost, or whatever and trying to fix them seems to me a little like telling gay people that they're just confused, they're really straight, and instead of living as they want to live, they should get help to be normal. It just doesn't seem right to me.

Don't think I am particularly picking on transgenders. We are all lost. Whatever bodily conception we have in mind makes us lost because the soul has nothing to do with it. Don't even think that I, myself am any better. I have the basic understanding but yet I still get caught up in all kinds of nonsense. It is a process to cleanse one's consciousness. Its just that when I see people going to great lengths to try and satisfy their bodily conception, it is very sad.

Paraprakrti, a question. Are you, how shall I put this, actively opposed to people being transgendered, or do you just think it's kinda silly, but what they do is up to them? Just curious about that.

I think its silly. Nevertheless, people are going to do what they feel. I'm just trying to tap people on the shoulder, "wake up, wake up". I'm waking up every now and then in order to do this. I'm getting better at it, but still have to battle my false ego.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

Power animal?... Fight Club? lol...

I fear that movie has set people back so that their automatic reply, whenever someone mentions the concept is: "My power animal is the penguin."

A shame, because it was a good movie.

 

[standing_on_one_foot]

Interesting. So, how are you so sure about this whole soul business? Is it just something you know?

 

[Bastet]

Interesting. So, how are you so sure about this whole soul business? Is it just something you know?

In the original post of this thread, you asked for religious views on this topic: that is what you are getting from Paraprakrti, if I'm not mistaken.