We discuss homosexuality here quite often, and I was wondering...

[Paraprakrti]

An interesting point. But...well, I don't know exactly what Paraprakrti meant, but what I meant is more that you feel the way you feel, and that's part of who you are. How you act on it depends on you, though, I think...

I understand that people are going to do what they feel. And apparently some people feel like being the opposite sex. I am saying that people feel this way because they have no knowledge of the self. They are confusing it with the designations of the body.

 

[Paraprakrti]

*sighs* Well, this is nigh on impossible to explain, isn't it? But how you percieve your gender is, in fact, part of who you are, and this doesn't always match up with your physical gender.

How you feel who you are is not who you are. Consider for a moment that this is a perception conditioned by things external from the consciousness itself. Try to step back and think about who you are, despite what you feel based on the material world.

 

[Jaymes]

This is merely material activity and designation external to the self. The self is not male or female, but it does take shelter in a body that is. The fact that we are wasting human intelligence to seek ways of altering one's physical gender shows how lost we are.

Damn straight. Why should we bother wasting time and intelligence on people who feel lost and so horribly wrong in the body their in? Silly peoples. They can just get over it.

Even better... "You" does not change. Try to understand the nature of the self, first of all, and then see how much you are concerned with such external nonsense.

Yes, "you" does not change. However, the body "you" is in affects how others treat "you." For someone who is a woman in every aspect but a physical sense, it can be disheartening and even disturbing to be treated as a man.

 

[Paraprakrti]

A cleft palatte correction is plastic surgery - I'm sure you would not object to that or even the replacement of burned skin. There is no difference here for reformation of the genitals. A man should not have a vagina nor a woman a penis - don't you agree?

One has a cleft palatte correction because something is defective. One replaces burnt skin because something is defective. One has a sex change because one feels like something is defective, when actually, nothing of the physical body is. A man does not have a vagina. A woman does not have a penis.

Some transgendered do not opt for the surgery but may have hormone treatments to grow or reduce breasts, to soften or harden muscle tone, to builld or remove body fat. And lets not forget electrolysis for removal of facial, chest and appendage hair.

either way, the fact that people seek to change gender by artificial means is nonsensical.

How about the ambigious morphology a new born baby presents and the surgeon recommends and carries out an arbitrary correction - that's cosmetic too!

-pah-

Are you speaking of the umbilical cord? Necessary sequence in line with the child exiting the womb of the mother. Hint, hint... its time to separate the baby from the mother.

 

[standing_on_one_foot]

No, pretty sure they were talking about people who are intersexed, not about the umbiligal cord.

 

[Jaymes]

One has a cleft palatte correction because something is defective. One replaces burnt skin because something is defective. One has a sex change because one feels like something is defective, when actually, nothing of the physical body is. A man does not have a vagina. A woman does not have a penis.

A man isn't supposed to feel like a woman (or vice versa), either. But it happens.

I really need to dig up that article with the study on how transsexuality is caused by hormones the infant is exposed to in the womb...

 

[Paraprakrti]

Damn straight. Why should we bother wasting time and intelligence on people who feel lost and so horribly wrong in the body their in? Silly peoples. They can just get over it.

No, we should try to help those who feel lost. But consider that maybe because they are lost, they don't really know what they need. People seem to go more for "fast acting" over "long lasting".

Yes, "you" does not change. However, the body "you" is in affects how others treat "you." For someone who is a woman in every aspect but a physical sense, it can be disheartening and even disturbing to be treated as a man.

How are we defining male and female? By what one desires? One feels like a man, that makes them a man? Ok, I feel like a blue whale. I find it disheartening that people don't treat me as a blue whale.

 

[Pah]

One has a cleft palatte correction because something is defective. One replaces burnt skin because something is defective. One has a sex change because one feels like something is defective, when actually, nothing of the physical body is. A man does not have a vagina. A woman does not have a penis.

My point exactly!!!!!

I am now assuming you do not undersatnd what gender is.

either way, the fact that people seek to change gender by artificial means is nonsensical.

It's a change in morphology not gender.

Are you speaking of the umbilical cord? Necessary sequence in line with the child exiting the womb of the mother. Hint, hint... its time to separate the baby from the mother.

No - intersexed. Which would include a masculine external morphology with a womb - or a woman with a vagina, a womb and a penis (not to be confused with the clitoris being present too!) with or without testicles.

I don't think you understand the broad spectrum of sexuality that occurs in all of God's creation.

-pah-

 

[Jaymes]

No, we should try to help those who feel lost. But consider that maybe because they are lost, they don't really know what they need. People seem to go more for "fast acting" over "long lasting".

Which is why it's nothing but teenagers getting sex changes, not people who have been trying to live normally for decades.

How are we defining male and female? By what one desires? One feels like a man, that makes them a man? Ok, I feel like a blue whale. I find it disheartening that people don't treat me as a blue whale.

You know, the funny thing is I know people that that would actually apply to...

And when you go into the realm of who you are on the inside.. who's to say you aren't male if you feel male, and female if you feel female?

 

[Paraprakrti]

No, pretty sure they were talking about people who are intersexed, not about the umbiligal cord.

What... a baby born with both sex organs? Hermaphrodite?

Thats understandable for correctional surgery. But the question is about sex changing.

 

[Jaymes]

What... a baby born with both sex organs? Hermaphrodite?

Thats understandable for correctional surgery. But the question is about sex changing.

Ah, but wouldn't a surgery to change sex be a correctional surgery, as well? Correcting the body to match the mind?

 

[Paraprakrti]

@Pah

I am assuming that gender is defined by how one feels. Ultimately, like I said before, people are going to do what they feel. I see sex change in the same light as someone who has their tongue split and thinks it makes them look like a snake.

 

[Paraprakrti]

Ah, but wouldn't a surgery to change sex be a correctional surgery, as well? Correcting the body to match the mind?

I am glad you brought this up...

You have pointed out the common crutch. Instead of changing the body to satisfy the mind, people need to change the mind. The mind is actually the key. The fact that people seek to change the body to match the mind shows their mental slavery. The mind should be in control of the body, not the other way around. That is called intelligence.

 

[Pah]

"How are we defining male and female? By what one desires? One feels like a man, that makes them a man? Ok, I feel like a blue whale. I find it disheartening that people don't treat me as a blue whale"

Read the definition already in this thread. Male is defined as having the relatively smaller gamete

-pah-

 

[standing_on_one_foot]

So...in short, transgendered people should just get over it and be normal.

 

[Jaymes]

So...in short, transgendered people should just get over it and be normal.

Heh, beat me to it.

... I hope you were being sarcastic. o_o Because that's what I was intending with my was-going-to-type-it-but-you-beat-me-to-it thing.

 

[Pah]

@Pah

I am assuming that gender is defined by how one feels. Ultimately, like I said before, people are going to do what they feel. I see sex change in the same light as someone who has their tongue split and thinks it makes them look like a snake.

It's a bad assumption about what gender is.

Read the definitions again.

-pah-

 

[Paraprakrti]

"How are we defining male and female? By what one desires? One feels like a man, that makes them a man? Ok, I feel like a blue whale. I find it disheartening that people don't treat me as a blue whale"

Read the definition already in this thread. Male is defined as having the relatively smaller gamete

-pah-

Has it been found that some people with a relatively smaller gamete have female bodies, or that some with a larger one have male bodies?

 

[Sunstone]

So...in short, transgendered people should just get over it and be normal.

Does that mean they must vote Republican, too?

 

[Paraprakrti]

So...in short, transgendered people should just get over it and be normal.

We're all going to "get over it". The question is how we are solving the problem. We need to address the root of the problem instead of dancing around it and feeding into the illusion. The root of the problem is that we don't know who we are.