We discuss homosexuality here quite often, and I was wondering...

[standing_on_one_foot]

What do people here think of individuals who are, to whatever degree or in whatever way, transgendered? I've heard plenty of people's view on homosexuality, but nothing on this. Thoughts? Opinions? Religous and secular views on the matter?

 

[Ceridwen018]

I accept all people. Changing your gender is not something that I'd ever be interested in personally, and its not something I would ever recommend, but hey--people who do choose that path aren't any less human than the rest of us!

 

[Jaymes]

Personally, I have absolutely no problem with people who are transgendered. I've known a few people, and other than acting like the opposite of their physical sex they were perfectly normal.

I do feel somewhat sympathetic for them, though. It must suck living in the wrong body.

Sidenote: What is the official definition of transgendered?

 

[standing_on_one_foot]

http://www.translife.net/tg101/terminology.htm gives a good definition of the term transgender, and various other associated terms.

 

[Pah]

I take my understanding of transgendered from Evoultion's Rainbow by Joan Roughgarden - herself a "post-op" transgendered woman

Transgendered is having a gender adverse to the external morphology of the body

Gender is the expression of sexual identity in a cultural context and is termed masculine or feminine. Male and female is reserved for the sex of the individual and is only determined by the relative size of the gametes, the larger being a female.

Sexual orientation for the transgendered is in consenence with gender identity regardless of the body's form.

-pah-

 

[Paraprakrti]

I can understand surgery in order to live. But cosmetic surgery is a complete waste of time. The grass is always greener on the other side, anyway.

 

[Jaymes]

I can understand surgery in order to live. But cosmetic surgery is a complete waste of time. The grass is always greener on the other side, anyway.

If it's their money they're using and it makes them able to bear living, does it really matter?

 

[standing_on_one_foot]

The grass is always greener on the other side, anyway.

Noo...that's not really it at all. It's not thinking that the other gender is better, it's just this deep sense of...wrongness, a sort of this grief at not being who you're supposed to be. Although I suppose it varies quite a bit from person to person...

Hmm.

 

[Paraprakrti]

I guess it was either this or suicide.

"I don't know if I can bear living with these genitals"

 

[Paraprakrti]

Noo...that's not really it at all. It's not thinking that the other gender is better, it's just this deep sense of...wrongness, a sort of this grief at not being who you're supposed to be. Although I suppose it varies quite a bit from person to person...

Hmm.

One is always who one is supposed to be. Unfortunately, not many realize this and so they seek to change such insignificant things. This is human advancement. LOL.

 

[standing_on_one_foot]

Yes, one is always what one is. That's the grief involved, you see, denying what you are...

 

[Paraprakrti]

who is denying what you are?

 

[Jaymes]

One is always who one is supposed to be. Unfortunately, not many realize this and so they seek to change such insignificant things. This is human advancement. LOL.

So... murderers are meant to be murderers?

I watched a special on the National Geographic Channel about transsexuality, and the quote that resounded with me the most was this: "You cannot change what you were. But you can change what you become."

 

[standing_on_one_foot]

How can I put this into words? By pretending you're...well, OK with your gender when you're not, you're denying part of who you are.

 

[Green Gaia]

I think by now everyone here knows that I'm gay, and although I've not spoken much about my journey regarding my sexuality, it's not always been easy. Still isn't sometimes, although I am completely accepting of myself now. But I cannot even fathom what transgendered people go through. From unacceptance and rejection from families and friends and society in general, they don't even always have the LesBiGay community to look to for support. I don't know any transgendered people in my life, but I have met a few online and the group as a whole has my complete support for whatever they feel they need to do to live comfortable lives in their own bodies.

 

[standing_on_one_foot]

So... murderers are meant to be murderers?

An interesting point. But...well, I don't know exactly what Paraprakrti meant, but what I meant is more that you feel the way you feel, and that's part of who you are. How you act on it depends on you, though, I think...

 

[Pah]

I can understand surgery in order to live. But cosmetic surgery is a complete waste of time. The grass is always greener on the other side, anyway.

A cleft palatte correction is plastic surgery - I'm sure you would not object to that or even the replacement of burned skin. There is no difference here for reformation of the genitals. A man should not have a vagina nor a woman a penis - don't you agree?

Some transgendered do not opt for the surgery but may have hormone treatments to grow or reduce breasts, to soften or harden muscle tone, to builld or remove body fat. And lets not forget electrolysis for removal of facial, chest and appendage hair.

How about the ambigious morphology a new born baby presents and the surgeon recommends and carries out an arbitrary correction - that's cosmetic too!

-pah-

 

[Paraprakrti]

So... murderers are meant to be murderers?

This is merely material activity and designation external to the self. The self is not male or female, but it does take shelter in a body that is. The fact that we are wasting human intelligence to seek ways of altering one's physical gender shows how lost we are.

I watched a special on the National Geographic Channel about transsexuality, and the quote that resounded with me the most was this: "You cannot change what you were. But you can change what you become."

Even better... "You" does not change. Try to understand the nature of the self, first of all, and then see how much you are concerned with such external nonsense.

 

[Paraprakrti]

How can I put this into words? By pretending you're...well, OK with your gender when you're not, you're denying part of who you are.

First you speak of gender as belonging to "you". Then you speak of gender as if it is part of "you". You had it right the first time; the self is different from the gender of the body.

 

[standing_on_one_foot]

*sighs* Well, this is nigh on impossible to explain, isn't it? But how you percieve your gender is, in fact, part of who you are, and this doesn't always match up with your physical gender.