We can't choose to believe?

[Quintessence]

Beliefs and creeds are a significant part of many world religions. Some groups engage in attempts to convince various sides that they have the right beliefs, while others do not. Regardless, the act of preaching or proselytizing is predicated on the notion that we can, on some level, choose what to believe. However, to what extent is this a choice? Here's a perspective for consideration (edit for clarification - these are NOT my words, they are quoted from the *source* linked to beneath the quote):

"Whether you believe in libertarian free will or not, it is immediately obvious that what you believe in is not a choice. If you disagree – are you sure that you could simply choose out of the blue to genuinely believe in something ? Are you sure that you could just decide to genuinely believe that the moon is made out of green cheese? Are you sure that you could just decide to genuinely believe that 2+2=42? Are you sure that you could just decide to genuinely believe that Elvis Presley was resurrected from the dead? You can´t. Try it if you don´t believe me.

Our belief-forming mechanisms operate subconsciously. You can of course change your mind on things, by reading, hearing new arguments, seeing new evidence, discussing it with others and so on – but you can´t just choose one of your beliefs, and start to genuinely believe in its negation out of the blue."
*source*​

Do you agree with this perspective? If so, why? If not, why not?

 

[George-ananda]

Do you agree with this perspective? If so, why? If not, why not?

I agree, but I don't know that I hear people thinking they can just change a belief or another's belief without a justifiable (to them) reason.

 

[Laika]

Having Tried to pretty much do this and reject Communism outright, I've found it was virtually a form of self-harm. if anything it made my beliefs significantly stronger by laying waste to the moral reasoning behind rejecting them as illusions. it's why I reverted back to type recently, simply because I couldn't find a way to do it even if there are very good reasons to do so. I can also agree that a great deal of our beliefs are unconscious as well, as the emotional "pull" of my own beliefs has outweighed rational arguments opposing it. its slightly weird expericing an inability to chose what goes on in the inner space in the mind (depression being a big factor in my understanding that) and made me rethink about rationality and free will.

 

[Riverwolf]

I agree to an extent, insofar as we believe as our brains our wired. I'm a polytheist, for example, because that's just how my mind is wired, not because I have any real arguments or evidence that the Ēse and Wen (that's the Æsir and Vanir for the Norse-inclined folks) actually exist whether anyone else believes in them or not. However, how our brains are wired isn't a static thing: given enough time, exposure, etc., we can change how our brians our wired.

So, yes, my mind could rewire to atheism, or monotheism, or any number of theistic outlooks. But here's the thing: I don't bloody want to. I like being a polytheist. Is that me committing informal logical fallacy of wishful thinking? Perhaps. But then again, I'm not a Vulcan.

 

[Parsimony]

Belief is definitely not something chosen. Some beliefs are more easily changed than others, but they don't change just because we want them to.

 

[Katzpur]

Beliefs and creeds are a significant part of many world religions. Some groups engage in attempts to convince various sides that they have the right beliefs, while others do not. Regardless, the act of preaching or proselytizing is predicated on the notion that we can, on some level, choose what to believe. However, to what extent is this a choice? Here's a perspective for consideration:

"Whether you believe in libertarian free will or not, it is immediately obvious that what you believe in is not a choice. If you disagree – are you sure that you could simply choose out of the blue to genuinely believe in something ? Are you sure that you could just decide to genuinely believe that the moon is made out of green cheese? Are you sure that you could just decide to genuinely believe that 2+2=42? Are you sure that you could just decide to genuinely believe that Elvis Presley was resurrected from the dead? You can´t. Try it if you don´t believe me.

Our belief-forming mechanisms operate subconsciously. You can of course change your mind on things, by reading, hearing new arguments, seeing new evidence, discussing it with others and so on – but you can´t just choose one of your beliefs, and start to genuinely believe in its negation out of the blue."
*source*​

Do you agree with this perspective? If so, why? If not, why not?

I pretty much do agree. I couldn't "choose to believe" that there's not a God, no matter how hard I were to try. And for this reason, I can understand why atheists can't simply "choose to believe" in God. On the other hand, if you're going to believe in anything that can't be physically proven (i.e. the existence of God, an afterlife, etc.), at some point you're going to have to set aside any doubts you may have because of something -- which you probably can't even explain -- that has spoken to your heart. We choose to believe things that make sense to us, but I don't think we can choose to believe things that don't -- if that makes any sense.

 

[LuisDantas]

I pretty much agree with the OP.

However, belief is very, very over-rated.

 

[1137]

With gods and beliefs we are not in the realm of fact vs fiction, in are in the realm of subjectivity, personal benefits/dangers, and so on. I can't believe the moon is made of cheese because I KNOW, as far as we can know something, that it is not cheese. We don't have any knowledge of that degree on religious truths.

 

[Quintessence]

I actually disagree with what the writer suggests here, but I think I'll hold off on going into that for a while yet.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Regardless, the act of preaching or proselytizing is predicated on the notion that we can, on some level, choose what to believe.

How so? Is it a matter of choice to believe in something?

I generally agree with your quote (Edit: the quote in your OP, not what I just quoted above). I've found that I can't choose my beliefs directly, but I can choose things that influence my beliefs: for instance, when I immersed myself in Quakerism, I found myself becoming more of a pacifist. When I stopped, my pacifism waned.

I've also found that my attitudes and opinions can be shaped by physical things (e.g. blood sugar level) that I'm aware of enough to manipulate to a certain extent.

 

[Draka]

I agree that belief is not a choice. We can have our beliefs altered given new information for our reasoning capabilities to digest and sort out, but we cannot just consciously choose to change beliefs that have already been established. I could no more choose to believe in the Abrahamic god than I could choose to suddenly like broccoli. My past experiences and knowledge gained influence who I am and what I believe. I'd have to have the ability to go back in time and change my past in order to end up believing differently than I do. Last I knew, there is no working time machine.

 

[LuisDantas]

There is a matter of responsibility in sentient beings. Responsibility of goals, of beliefs, and particularly of how seriously one questions and orients oneself according to those beliefs.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

My past experiences and knowledge gained influence who I am and what I believe. I'd have to have the ability to go back in time and change my past in order to end up believing differently than I do.

Now.

Your choices about your current and future actions will shape what your "past experiences" are to your future self, and thereby influence your beliefs.

I don't think this is likely to create a wholesale change in anyone's fundamental beliefs, but it can tweak the beliefs around the edges.

 

[Draka]

Now.

Your choices about your current and future actions will shape what your "past experiences" are to your future self, and thereby influence your beliefs.

I don't think this is likely to create a wholesale change in anyone's fundamental beliefs, but it can tweak the beliefs around the edges.

What I choose to do today will affect certain experiences I may have, yes, but choosing to stop at a gas station for a coffee or wait until 4 to go to the library isn't actively trying to change a belief. Your everyday life, things that happen to you, happening to walk by a certain book section in a bookstore and having a title catch your eye causing you to read a book you never intended on,...these things are just daily events. Whether you chalk it up to random events or fate, it isn't something you design in order to come to a certain belief. That...just happens.

 

[Deeje]

"Belief" comes from the inner reaches of self...who we really are at heart. I have come to believe that what we accept as truth tells our Creator what motivates us and our choices. He forces no one to believe anything, but allows each one of us to explore spirituality (or lack of it) and to identify ourselves by our speech, thoughts and actions (or lack of them). That is what 'free will' is all about. Who we really are is demonstrated by what course we choose to follow, based on our own assessments, whether that be what we do in public or in private. This is why God's judgment of us is fair. We cannot pretend to be something we are not because he sees who we really are.
He will not influence our decisions because this is how he chooses the citizens of his kingdom.

This is what my exploration of spirituality has revealed.

 

[Augustus]

I think you might be able to. Perhaps not all of the time, or with any given belief, or instantly but if you tell yourself something enough then you can start to believe it.

Also you have something like doublethink in 1984: "To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them, to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it, to believe that democracy was impossible and that the Party was the guardian of democracy, to forget whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back into memory again at the moment when it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again, and above all, to apply the same process to the process itself – that was the ultimate subtlety: consciously to induce unconsciousness, and then, once again, to become unconscious of the act of hypnosis you had just performed. Even to understand the word 'doublethink' involved the use of doublethink"

Such concepts existed in totalitarian societies and are different from simple lying. It is saying something you know to be untrue, while actively believing in it at the moment of speaking.

Also in some societies where saving face and outward appearance is important, you have words that relate to a similar concept. For example, in Japanese you have tatemae and honne. Tatemae is like the formal or outward reality - what is presented publicly. Honne is the substantial 'actual' reality. Entire discourses can take place, over prolonged periods of time, based on the tatemae outward reality in which people's actions and behaviour is based around something known not to be true, yet also accepted as being true. Sort of like flicking a mental switch.

It is arguable that conceptions of 'truth' and 'belief' are social and cultural constructs, and the idea that you can't just believe something is based on a Western rationalist worldview.

 

[Geoff-Allen]

"My opinions may have changed but not the fact that I am right."

~ Steven Wright

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Beliefs and creeds are a significant part of many world religions. Some groups engage in attempts to convince various sides that they have the right beliefs, while others do not. Regardless, the act of preaching or proselytizing is predicated on the notion that we can, on some level, choose what to believe. However, to what extent is this a choice? Here's a perspective for consideration:

"Whether you believe in libertarian free will or not, it is immediately obvious that what you believe in is not a choice. If you disagree – are you sure that you could simply choose out of the blue to genuinely believe in something ? Are you sure that you could just decide to genuinely believe that the moon is made out of green cheese? Are you sure that you could just decide to genuinely believe that 2+2=42? Are you sure that you could just decide to genuinely believe that Elvis Presley was resurrected from the dead? You can´t. Try it if you don´t believe me.

Our belief-forming mechanisms operate subconsciously. You can of course change your mind on things, by reading, hearing new arguments, seeing new evidence, discussing it with others and so on – but you can´t just choose one of your beliefs, and start to genuinely believe in its negation out of the blue."
*source*​

Do you agree with this perspective? If so, why? If not, why not?

I agree that we cannot choose our beliefs. What I notice is people change practices and their religious thought changes to what already makes sense to them. Its more of a revelation for some people rather than a change of belief.

 

[Father Heathen]

Belief isn't a choice, but willful ignorance is.

 

[paarsurrey]

We can't choose to believe?

Why? Please
We do so many things on our own on daily basis so why one should not be free to believe if convinced. We are social that entails that whatever is truth for us should be told to our brethren in humanity and the vice a versa. Nobody has monopoly on truth. Truth must be shared with others.
Regards