• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

We are unique.

Nubialy

New Member
We all know that some people, and even groups, ignore or trample on elevated morals, but the majority do not. From what source do the moral values found in virtually all areas and in all periods come? If there is no Source of morality, no Creator, did right and wrong simply originate with people, human society? Consider an example: Most individuals and groups hold murder to be wrong. But one could ask, ‘Wrong in comparison to what?’ Obviously there is some sense of morality that underlies human society in general and that has been incorporated into the laws of many lands. What is the source of this standard of morality? Could it not be an intelligent Creator who has moral values and who placed the faculty of conscience, or ethical sense, in humans?—Compare Romans 2:14, 15.​


Another facet of human consciousness is our ability to consider the future. When asked whether humans have traits that distinguish them from animals, Professor Richard Dawkins acknowledged that man has, indeed, unique qualities. After mentioning "the ability to plan ahead using conscious, imagined foresight," Dawkins added: "Short-term benefit has always been the only thing that counts in evolution; long-term benefit has never counted. It has never been possible for something to evolve in spite of being bad for the immediate short-term good of the individual. For the first time ever, it’s possible for at least some people to say, ‘Forget about the fact that you can make a short-term profit by chopping down this forest; what about the long-term benefit?’ Now I think that’s genuinely new and unique."​
Other researchers confirm that humans’ ability for conscious, long-term planning is without parallel. Neurophysiologist William H. Calvin notes: "Aside from hormonally triggered preparations for winter and mating, animals exhibit surprisingly little evidence of planning more than a few minutes ahead." Animals may store food before a cold season, but they do not think things through and plan. By contrast, humans consider the future, even the distant future. Some scientists contemplate what may happen to the universe billions of years hence. Did you ever wonder why man—so different from animals—is able to think about the future and lay out plans?​

The Bible says of humans: "Even time indefinite [the Creator] has put in their heart." The Revised Standard Version renders it: "He has put eternity into man’s mind." (Ecclesiastes 3:11) We use this distinctive ability daily, even in as common an act as glancing in a mirror and thinking what our appearance will be in 10 or 20 years. And we are confirming what Ecclesiastes 3:11 says when we give even passing thought to such concepts as the infinity of time and space. The mere fact that we have this ability harmonizes with the comment that a Creator has put "eternity into man’s mind."​

Many people, however, are not satisfied fully by enjoying beauty, doing good to fellowmen, and thinking about the future. "Strangely enough," notes Professor C. Stephen Evans, "even in our most happy and treasured moments of love, we often feel something is missing. We find ourselves wanting more but not knowing what is the more we want." Indeed, conscious humans—unlike the animals with which we share this planet—feel another need.​

"Religion is deeply rooted in human nature and experienced at every level of economic status and educational background." This summed up the research that Professor Alister Hardy presented in The Spiritual Nature of Man. It confirms what numerous other studies have established—man is God-conscious. While individuals may be atheists, whole nations are not. The book Is God the Only Reality? observes: "The religious quest for meaning . . . is the common experience in every culture and every age since the emergence of humankind."​

From where does this seemingly inborn awareness of God come? If man were merely an accidental grouping of nucleic acid and protein molecules, why would these molecules develop a love of art and beauty, turn religious, and contemplate eternity?

 

Pah

Uber all member
Nubialy said:


From where does this seemingly inborn awareness of God come? If man were merely an accidental grouping of nucleic acid and protein molecules, why would these molecules develop a love of art and beauty, turn religious, and contemplate eternity?

Because they are taught to after an evolutionary process makes it "inbreed".
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Nubialy said:
This summed up the research that Professor Alister Hardy presented in The Spiritual Nature of Man. It confirms what numerous other studies have established—man is God-conscious.
<yawn> Please outline how "God-cosciousness" was defined and confirmed. </yawn>
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
Excellent post Nubialy. You will be resented and derided for your beliefs, but that's the price we have to pay.
 

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
Many humans arn't much better at planing for the future than most other 'hormonaly driven' animals. :rolleyes:

why would these molecules develop a love of art and beauty, turn religious, and contemplate eternity?

How can we be sure that we are the only ones who have such traits? Bower birds build art galleries where they display trinkets and baubles that they find nice to look at. They spend hours arranging them just right, and keeping other Bower birds from stealing thier pieces.
Females look for males who have the same 'taste in art' as themselves and can be very fussy about what they look at.

Elephants have a well documented awareness of death. They show what could almost be called a 'reverance' for the dead. Uppon finding a dead elephant they will spend hours with the corpse, touching, mouthing and examining the body. Some have been known to carry remains of the dead with them for days, for no easily explained reason. They have been documented to try to keep elderly elephants from laying down as they die, standing on either side of the elder to prop them up. When they do sink to the ground they sometimes try to lift them back up to thier feet. They will stay with the elder in some cases for several days, well after death, keeping the scavengers away untill the local food sources are gone and they have to move on to survive.

If the actions of elephants are just 'hormonal' then surely the actions of humans are just as questionable?

wa:do
 

SK2005

Saint in training
Wow, blink blink, to much like the human being paper I am supposed to be writting. Thanks for the input guys!

:)
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
I don't know Painted Wolf,

I don't see any other creature building a temple and worshiping something higher than itself. Sure, dogs sorta kinda do that to humans, but it's not the same. Nothing this earth has to offer can come close to a human's cognitive ability for reasoning, for love, for understanding the future, and I could go on.

But most importantly, there is no evidence of a "spiritual side" to any creature. At least none that I am aware of. God made us in his "image", and God is spirit. Again, I thought the post to be excellent and frubaled him for it!
 

Original Freak

I am the ORIGINAL Freak
Nothing this earth has to offer can come close to a human's cognitive ability for reasoning, for love, for understanding the future, and I could go on
Reasoning...our mind has evolved more than other animals
Love...I've seen animals show love, loyalty and dedication as much as any human
Understand the future...all I know about the future is that I havn't been there yet.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
How are reasoning "came to be" is of little consequence. That we have it: is.

There is far greater love to be experienced than the affection of an animal. Hopefully you will get to feel that one day.

all I know about the future is that I havn't been there yet
Which is infinitely more than all of the other creatures on this earth understand about it, even combined.
 

Tawn

Active Member
NetDoc said:
There is far greater love to be experienced than the affection of an animal. Hopefully you will get to feel that one day.
Perhaps you dont connect well with animals.. I feel for you.
Which is infinitely more than all of the other creatures on this earth understand about it, even combined.
Animals display a very good understanding of the future. Many animals forage during the summer and stash away food for the winter. A spirder spins a web and waits for prey.. it is also anticipating future events.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
You shouldn't assume. I typed that as my cat lies here on my lap puring. She is quite contented, and I love my RatCat. She doesn't listen to a word I say, but I get the idea that she tolerates me "OK".

Hmnnn, I don't think scientists label that as an "understanding". Instinct is the word most of them would use for that type of behaviour, and I agree. But you are free to call it what you will.

As for your signature: Athiests rest on the same circular logic. Reject and you won't believe. Nothing unfathomable about that.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
painted wolf said:
Many humans arn't much better at planing for the future than most other 'hormonaly driven' animals. :rolleyes:

[/size][/font]
How can we be sure that we are the only ones who have such traits? Bower birds build art galleries where they display trinkets and baubles that they find nice to look at. They spend hours arranging them just right, and keeping other Bower birds from stealing thier pieces.
Females look for males who have the same 'taste in art' as themselves and can be very fussy about what they look at.

Elephants have a well documented awareness of death. They show what could almost be called a 'reverance' for the dead. Uppon finding a dead elephant they will spend hours with the corpse, touching, mouthing and examining the body. Some have been known to carry remains of the dead with them for days, for no easily explained reason. They have been documented to try to keep elderly elephants from laying down as they die, standing on either side of the elder to prop them up. When they do sink to the ground they sometimes try to lift them back up to thier feet. They will stay with the elder in some cases for several days, well after death, keeping the scavengers away untill the local food sources are gone and they have to move on to survive.

If the actions of elephants are just 'hormonal' then surely the actions of humans are just as questionable?

wa:do
What about Elephant graveyards? who has taught the elephant to go to a specific place to die ? Who has taught a pet Dog that I come home at 6 O'clock in the evening; and that she should go and wait by the front door at five to six ?:)
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
NetDoc said:
As for your signature: Athiests rest on the same circular logic. Reject and you won't believe. Nothing unfathomable about that.
The atheist attitude towards religion is identical to her attitude towards Mermaids and Pixies and Astrology.
 

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
I don't see any other creature building a temple and worshiping something higher than itself.
Hard to build without hands.. your comparison is human-centric bias, demanding an animal to build a human style temple is like asking a human to lick its own butt clean... it isn't physically possible.

Who says 'worship' needs a building?
Or a book?
How do you know that the elephants arn't worshiping when they attend to their dead?
You don't because you can not read the mind of an elephant.

ritualistic behavoir with the dead is 'instinct' for the elephant, but 'religion' for us?
how do you seperate the behaviors?

And please don't take this as an attack... It isn't ment to be :D

wa:do
 

Druidus

Keeper of the Grove
What about Homo Neanderthalensis, NetDoc? The buried lion heads, ochre paint, burying of the dead? What about them?

We are no more unique than any other species. Saying we are superior because we do something better than another species is ridiculous. Are dogs superior than us because they smell better? No, they just evolved that way. Likewise, we are not superior for our intellectual prowess.

Even your own God proclaimed that there is no difference, that we hold no superiority over animals. Do you defy her?
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
painted wolf said:
Hard to build without hands.. your comparison is human-centric bias, demanding an animal to build a human style temple is like asking a human to lick its own butt clean... it isn't physically possible.
There are, of course, contortionists. Perhaps it's enough to say that it is "typically impossible", though a fitting metaphore for certain types of apologetics aimed at cleaning up textual 'difficulties'.
 

CaptainXeroid

Following Christ
NetDoc said:
...I don't see any other creature building a temple and worshiping something higher than itself. Sure, dogs sorta kinda do that to humans, but it's not the same. Nothing this earth has to offer can come close to a human's cognitive ability for reasoning, for love, for understanding the future, and I could go on...
I concur 100%. My wife & I have 2 kitties, and we love animals, but they are not our equals. Pointing out that an animal has a certain survival instinct or a physical capability that Man doesn't does not prove that animals are superior or Man's equal.
 

Druidus

Keeper of the Grove
I concur 100%. My wife & I have 2 kitties, and we love animals, but they are not our equals. Pointing out that an animal has a certain survival instinct or a physical capability that Man doesn't does not prove that animals are superior or Man's equal.
Pointing out that man has a certain survival trait doesn't prove that man is superior. You are going against your own God. She, herself, did say that man is equal to the other animals.
 

Druidus

Keeper of the Grove
Ecclesiastes 3:19-20 testifies that man has no preeminence over animals. In Ecclesiastes 3:19-20 from the King James Bible we read:
For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.

 
Top