Ways to avoid being fooled or intimidated in Internet discussions?

[Jim]

And if their views are “unscientific” and “unsupported by evidence,” and yours are “science,” “scientific” or “what science says”? Then what, clam up?.

I don’t think of any views as being scientific or not. It looks to me like sometimes when people call their views “scientific,” it means that they think most people with science degrees agree with them. If I thought that most people with science degrees agreed with some view of mine, and I thought that someone might want to know that, I might tell them that, and my reasons for thinking that.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I think that sometimes people are intimidated into repressing or changing their views, by seeing other people being stigmatized for those views. I thought a discussion about it might help keep it from happening to some people.

Maybe. I typically see 95% of it as being one of these three things in debates:

1. People using banter to enforce their side
2. Role-playing
3. People actually using their learned formal rules of debate, and treating informal internet forums as formal debate, which though it kind of makes sense to me, goes over the heads of almost everyone but me and the person using formal debate practices

 

[HonestJoe]

This is for people to post their ideas about how to avoid being fooled or intimidated into silence or submission, and help others avoid being fooled or intimidated into silence or submission, in Internet discussions.

Accept that you might be wrong (at least in part). Most of the problems you’re referring to come from people who aren’t really looking for debate or discussion but validation.

 

[Revoltingest]

How to avoid being intimidated.....
I picture the other poster naked, unwashed with withered private parts,
cowering behind an old Apple 2E, sitting in their parents' basement.
(Although with @columbus, I put him in rainbow colored yoga pants.)
Feel a mix of sympathy & revulsion....not intimidation.

How to avoid being mislead....
Vet their claims.
Apply reasoning & common sense.
Control focus of the discussion.

 

[paarsurrey]

how to avoid being fooled or intimidated into silence or submission

Following points come to me in addition to what the friends have suggested and I have appreciated, not personally pointed to any one :

1. We ourselves should avoid fooling others or intimidating others.
2. We ourselves should concentrate on the reason and arguments being given by others
3. We should concentrate on giving reason with reason, not with sentiments
4. When I sit on the computer to write posts I silently pray the following prayer told by Muhammad:
5. "O Allah, I take refuge with You lest I should stray or be led astray, or slip or be tripped, or oppress or be oppressed, or behave foolishly or be treated foolishly."اللّهُـمَّ إِنِّـي أَعـوذُ بِكَ أَنْ أَضِـلَّ أَوْ أُضَـل ، أَوْ أَزِلَّ أَوْ أُزَل ، أَوْ أَظْلِـمَ أَوْ أَُظْلَـم ، أَوْ أَجْهَلَ أَوْ يُـجْهَلَ عَلَـيّ" : - " O Allah, I take refuge with You lest I should cause others to stray or I should be led astray by them, or I slip away or I cause others to be slipped away, or I misbehave with others or they misbehave with me , or I do wrong to others or they do wrong to me."
6. Those who believe in G-d, they could also do it, if they like. Those who don't believe in G-d, they could resolve to that effect.

Right, please?

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

You are not intimidated into silence if you choose to end a discussion.
If you think you made your point and your interlocutor doesn't understand or doesn't agree it's OK to leave. Don't get intimidated to continue an already dead discussion.

I would suggest a pause instead, till the other side is clearheaded enough to resume the discussion with reasons and arguments.

Regards

 

[BilliardsBall]

NOTE: My reason for posting this in a debate forum is not because I want to debate about it, myself. It’s because I want to allow as much freedom as possible for people to say what they think.

This is for people to post their ideas about how to avoid being fooled or intimidated into silence or submission, and help others avoid being fooled or intimidated into silence or submission, in Internet discussions.

Avoid being fooled in discussions: adhere to the Holy Bible

Avoid being intimidated in discussions by bullying: put more of the skeptics on ignore

Thankfully, I'm not intimidated by the vicious trolls at RF who get joy from assaulting theists via words.

 

[Quintessence]

I'll be honest - something like this doesn't even enter my mind when communicating on web forums. It's a non-issue. If someone is trying to fool or intimidate me (or any other user), odds are good that person is violating the forum rules. If anyone around here is being trolled and bullied into silence or submission, that's not okay. If you feel that way and think the person who did it to you was behaving questionably, report it to the staff team.

I suppose that's a way of saying that if you are running into issues with this on a web forum, that means it has a terrible community and is poorly moderated. Granted, even well-moderated forums aren't perfect on this front, but having been on forums like that I'm familiar with the environment. More often than not I simply opt to not participate in such environments. I'm not interested in unproductive discussions where one person's goal is simply to be a jerk. If they don't want to listen to what others say - if they are aiming to fool or intimidate others into silence - they shouldn't be engaging in the discussions in the first place. Start a darned blog instead.

 

[Vinayaka]

NOTE: My reason for posting this in a debate forum is not because I want to debate about it, myself. It’s because I want to allow as much freedom as possible for people to say what they think.

This is for people to post their ideas about how to avoid being fooled or intimidated into silence or submission, and help others avoid being fooled or intimidated into silence or submission, in Internet discussions.

I think that some folks have unrealistic expectations of what a forum is or should be. If you expect to come to a discussion forum, and have everyone agree with everything you say, then you're just being unrealistic. People are incredibly diverse: in belief, in attitude, in emotional stability, in intelligence, in character. A forum like this is where all of these things come out, sometimes rather loudly.

People come and people go. It's the nature of forums. For sure some people 'feel' like they have been intimidated into silence and have left because of it. But as others have said or implied, since this particular forum has excellent moderation, I would suggest it's a false sense of just what intimidation is. Disagreeing with a point is, simply put, not intimidation, even when said with what some might consider insufficient tact.

 

[MikeDwight]

People want you online to be fooled and intimidated. Hey I saw you online fooled and intimidated. Where can we make more of that? Let's get it going. This forum and all forums will kick you off of their content any time. What do people these days expect the internet is? Little kids get "bullied" in social media programs and try to kill themselves. That Dr. Phil episode where they tried for a Morgan's Law about it, the neighbor made a bunch of fake profiles the whole time. No internet experience has to be rated, nobody has to come in and fix your Explorer tool for you. I'd make fake Facebook profiles to tear down Zuckerberg. What's all that supposed to be since the 2000's, like put your phone number in, anybody cares?Somebody cares about their content and how their content reflects on people? Wait I got my own HTML website skills? maybe you wanted that website's content that Zuckerberg owns to defame me and I sue you for looking at facebook about me.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Admit when you know you don't have a leg to stand on in the argument. Then you won't be seen as just "remaining silent." In my experience this would "fix" about 95% of the problem.

 

[MikeDwight]

Point to one person looking for truth in arguments. oops. nobody. Hey give me a thumbs up, I lie a lot. OK thumbs up. Nice internet.You gotta participate in the internet in the first place so I feel like I'm a Good liar on my little profile.

I'm a fine person that didn't deserve losing all my jobs, admissions, education, because the enforcement idiots are the only ones going to be fully responsible for taking English-second-language testimony or contracts as impactful in any relations. I don't cause-lie-get on the internet.

 

[Skwim]

I don’t think of any views as being scientific or not.

Then my condolences for your shortsightedness.

.

 

[Nakosis]

NOTE: My reason for posting this in a debate forum is not because I want to debate about it, myself. It’s because I want to allow as much freedom as possible for people to say what they think.

This is for people to post their ideas about how to avoid being fooled or intimidated into silence or submission, and help others avoid being fooled or intimidated into silence or submission, in Internet discussions.

Never take anything personally. These folks don't really know you, except a few posters who provide TMI.
Be honest with your knowledge. Can't be expected to know everything. Being ignorant about a subject doesn't make you stupid. Accept your ignorance.
There's nothing wrong with being wrong. There is something wrong with being stubborn about it.
Sometimes a poster will focus in on a minor mistake you make, spelling, grammer, word usage, Stick to your point and avoid these distractions as best you can.

Ideally, everyone involved is willing to learn something new, understand though this is not always the case and realize that some people take part in a discussion simply to assert their rightness.
Keep in mind that sarcasm doesn't always come across well in script. What may at first seem to be personal and critical may have been meant as self sarcasm.

 

[joe1776]

...This is for people to post their ideas about how to avoid being fooled or intimidated into silence or submission, and help others avoid being fooled or intimidated into silence or submission, in Internet discussions.

Jim, I think your post calls attention to but one of many symptoms of insecurity. For example, a person easily intimated in internet discussion would just as likely be intimidated by verbal bullies in any situation.

The solution to the problem is to gain self-confidence which, of course, is easier said than done.

 

[Jim]

I’ve edited my original post to add some clarification.

 

[dianaiad]

NOTE: My reason for posting this in a debate forum is not because I want to debate about it, myself. It’s because I want to allow as much freedom as possible for people to say what they think.

(edited to add some clarification)
I see this now as two separate questions, with possibly very different answers. Also, I didn’t really ask the questions that I meant to ask. I’ll try again.

1. Imagine a person who thinks that people might be fooled sometimes by some dishonest tactics that people use to promote their views or discredit the views of others, and they’re looking for ideas of what to do. Would you have any ideas for them?

2. Imagine a person who thinks that people might be intimidated sometimes into silence about their views, or into changing their views, by seeing other people being stigmatized for having those views, and they’re looking for ideas about what to do. Would you have any ideas for them?
(end edit)

This is for people to post their ideas about how to avoid being fooled or intimidated into silence or submission, and help others avoid being fooled or intimidated into silence or submission, in Internet discussions.

a/ Realize that you know what you know, believe what you believe, and no matter what anybody writes, they don't know where you live. Say what you want to say, within the rules of the forum.
b/ Realize that the same thing goes for everybody you encounter. No matter how mad/exercised/unhappy you are, you can't physically shake sense into anybody.
c/ Realize that nobody is here to get THEIR minds changed, only to change yours (or at least show you for the idiot they think you are being) and that goes for you, too.
d/ Honesty cannot be enforced, or even determined. The only one who can figure out if you are telling the truth is you....and that's what honor is.

Be honorable.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

NOTE: My reason for posting this in a debate forum is not because I want to debate about it, myself. It’s because I want to allow as much freedom as possible for people to say what they think.

(edited to add some clarification)
I see this now as two separate questions, with possibly very different answers. Also, I didn’t really ask the questions that I meant to ask. I’ll try again.

1. Imagine a person who thinks that people might be fooled sometimes by some dishonest tactics that people use to promote their views or discredit the views of others, and they’re looking for ideas of what to do. Would you have any ideas for them?

2. Imagine a person who thinks that people might be intimidated sometimes into silence about their views, or into changing their views, by seeing other people being stigmatized for having those views, and they’re looking for ideas about what to do. Would you have any ideas for them?
(end edit)

This is for people to post their ideas about how to avoid being fooled or intimidated into silence or submission, and help others avoid being fooled or intimidated into silence or submission, in Internet discussions.

Idea: Try to avoid internet discussions/debates altogether. That's what I've been doing, as I've found they are a waste of time. I still post my ideas on the internet occasionally and may discuss a bit, but I see no point in extensive back-and-forth debates.

 

[Jim]

One way that I think people might be fooled sometimes, or intimidated into silence about their views, is seeing other people being denounced, scolded, ridiculed and vilified, seemingly because of what they believe or don’t believe. In this post I’ll discuss what I’ve been learning to do when that happens to me. Later, possibly in another thread, I’ll discuss that in relation to some current issues and what I’ve been learning to do about those.

Part of what I’ve been learning to do when it happens to me is recognizing when it’s happening. Another part is how to respond to it. I’m learning to recognize it when I see people speculating about my motives, intentions, character or capacities. One way that I’ve been learning to respond to that is by not responding to it. Nothing. Not a word about that part of any posts. If that’s all I see a person doing, then they get no response from me at all.

Sometimes I see people doing what I’ve been thinking of as volunteering to be the clown in a dunking booth. They start a thread about their beliefs, knowing full well that they are stirring up a hornet’s nest. I used to do that myself sometimes, I’ve never felt sorry for anyone who does that, including myself, and I’ve never felt sorry for the wasps, but now I see that those dunking booths might be adversely affecting other people sometimes, fooling them or intimidating them into silence about their views, so I might not ever want to be part of them any more.

 

[Jim]

One way that I’ve seen people being fooled, or intimidated into silence about their views, is by seeing other people being maligned, scolded, ridiculed and vilified, seemingly because of what they believe or don’t believe. One way that I’ve been learning to respond to that is recognizing when it’s happening, and not responding to it at all, not even to denounce it. Another way that I want to learn is posting friendly messages to targets of that behavior, in the forums or in PM. Another way might be admonishments to friends when I see them behaving that way. Another way might be helping other people learn to do all that.