Ways to avoid being fooled or intimidated in Internet discussions?

[Jim]

NOTE: My reason for posting this in a debate forum is not because I want to debate about it, myself. It’s because I want to allow as much freedom as possible for people to say what they think.

(edited to add some clarification)
I see this now as two separate questions, with possibly very different answers. Also, I didn’t really ask the questions that I meant to ask. I’ll try again.

1. Imagine a person who thinks that people might be fooled sometimes by some dishonest tactics that people use to promote their views or discredit the views of others, and they’re looking for ideas of what to do. Would you have any ideas for them?

2. Imagine a person who thinks that people might be intimidated sometimes into silence about their views, or into changing their views, by seeing other people being stigmatized for having those views, and they’re looking for ideas about what to do. Would you have any ideas for them?
(end edit)

This is for people to post their ideas about how to avoid being fooled or intimidated into silence or submission, and help others avoid being fooled or intimidated into silence or submission, in Internet discussions.

 

[Harel13]

1. Know your stuff - read, research, etc.
2. Don't forget the fall back, easy escape: "Let's agree to disagree".
3. Don't swear and type in caps lock, it makes you look like an incoherent loon.

 

[Jim]

My first thought is what I’ve discussed before, being fooled and intimidated by others calling your views “unscientific” and “unsupported by evidence,” and their views “science,” “scientific” or “what science says”; demanding evidence for your views; accusing you personally of being “unscientific” and “against science”; and various other ways of using the name, reputation and language of science to stigmatize you for what you believe or don’t believe.

What I’ve learned above all was not to fall into the trap of doing the same thing, myself. It’s like, trying to fight against the dark side can pull you over to it. Or like Sargeras in World of Warcraft going mad and turning against the other Titans, from trying to fight against the demons. I never call my views “science,” “scientific” or “what science says,” and I never call my reasons for my ways of thinking “evidence.”

Part of what I’ve done to avoid being fooled or intimidated by that was to do some investigation into what, precisely, people mean when they call some views “scientific” and others “unscientific,” and what people mean when they call their reasons for thinking what they do “evidence.” Another way has been to do my own research on whatever science people say that I’m denying.

 

[wizanda]

how to avoid being fooled or intimidated into silence or submission

Accept "In what way are we delusional in some way" each morning we wake up down here in the Maya - Otherwise we are bound to be fooled somewhere.

Next when coming online, and people say it is wrong, question it, don't assume we have everything right, as for every angle there is wisdom to understand.

Only a fool assumes they know every angle; a wise man will sit reflecting against perspectives.

In true understanding, we don't get intimidated at informing others they are also delusional in some way; else it would be submissive of us, not to feel obligated to help others see their confusions.

In my opinion.

 

[exchemist]

1. Know your stuff - read, research, etc.
2. Don't forget the fall back, easy escape: "Let's agree to disagree".
3. Don't swear and type in caps lock, it makes you look like an incoherent loon.

I would add:

Deal with one point at a time and don't allow yourself to be distracted by red herrings.

Be aware of the Gish Gallop: a particular form of distraction tactic that throws a cloud of different points at you all at once, to confuse you. Ignore them and stick to your point.

Similarly, be aware of Whataboutery: a distraction tactic that introduces an alleged weakness of the position you are supporting that is irrelevant to the point under discussion.

P.S. It's worth saying that sometimes people behave as if they are using the above distraction techniques simply because they get carried away in the heat of the discussion. But you should still keep the discussion on the point you are addressing until it is dealt with properly.

 

[Heyo]

This is for people to post their ideas about how to avoid being fooled or intimidated into silence or submission, and help others avoid being fooled or intimidated into silence or submission, in Internet discussions.

You are not intimidated into silence if you choose to end a discussion.
If you think you made your point and your interlocutor doesn't understand or doesn't agree it's OK to leave. Don't get intimidated to continue an already dead discussion.

 

[Jim]

Another way of being fooled and intimidated is by people calling their beliefs “what God says” or “what scripture says,” and saying that you’re contradicting the scriptures; or by saying or insinuating that if you don’t agree with them you aren’t a true believer or you’re putting your own desires ahead of God’s will.

One way that I’ve learned not to be intimidated or fooled by that is by not doing it myself. In my disagreements with people who trust the same scriptures I do, I never call what I think “what God says” or “what scripture says.” I’ll say something like “in my understanding” or “It looks to me like this is what God is saying.” Another way that I’ve learned not to be intimidated or fooled is by seeing that people aren’t getting their ideas about what the scriptures say, from doing their own research in the scriptures. Another way is by doing my own research, trying to see what the scriptures say from the other person’s point of view.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Ways to avoid being fooled or intimidated in Internet discussions?

Easy: don't engage in internet discussion.

 

[Jim]

In the two examples I considered above, a person is being fooled or intimidated by other people using loaded words and ideas to stigmatize them personally, for what they believe or don’t believe. Part of my defense against that is learning never to do it myself. Another part of it is learning more about where people are getting their ideas, and doing my own research, allowing for them to be right. All that might apply more generally to all the ways that people are fooled and intimidated. Learning not to use those tactics, myself, learning more about where people are getting their ideas, and doing my own research.

 

[Twilight Hue]

NOTE: My reason for posting this in a debate forum is not because I want to debate about it, myself. It’s because I want to allow as much freedom as possible for people to say what they think.

This is for people to post their ideas about how to avoid being fooled or intimidated into silence or submission, and help others avoid being fooled or intimidated into silence or submission, in Internet discussions.

Easy.

Grow a pair. ;0)

 

[firedragon]

1. Dont fall for sidetracking. Strawman arguments.
2. Understand logical fallacies and dont get trapped by them.
3. Dont fall for traps that lure you into a discussion founded on assumption.
4. Dont lose yourself upon insults and ad hominem. Call them out.

 

[Skwim]

My first thought is what I’ve discussed before, being fooled and intimidated by others calling your views “unscientific” and “unsupported by evidence,” and their views “science,” “scientific” or “what science says”; demanding evidence for your views; accusing you personally of being “unscientific” and “against science”; and various other ways of using the name, reputation and language of science to stigmatize you for what you believe or don’t believe.

And if their views are “unscientific” and “unsupported by evidence,” and yours are “science,” “scientific” or “what science says”? Then what, clam up?

I never call my views “science,” “scientific” or “what science says,”

And If they are, why not? Are you afraid of science?

Part of what I’ve done to avoid being fooled or intimidated by that was to do some investigation into what, precisely, people mean when they call some views “scientific” and others “unscientific,”

Curious, don't you often sidetrack yourself by investigating the precise meaning of an individual's use of these terms?

.

 

[dfnj]

NOTE: My reason for posting this in a debate forum is not because I want to debate about it, myself. It’s because I want to allow as much freedom as possible for people to say what they think.

This is for people to post their ideas about how to avoid being fooled or intimidated into silence or submission, and help others avoid being fooled or intimidated into silence or submission, in Internet discussions.

People only take away from you what you let them take. Don't let them take anything.

 

[wizanda]

If we read all the logical fallacies, we learn how to argue; if we learn the rules of reasoning, we understand the process of Logic.

Online it is even clearer where: Children compete, Adults relate, Grandparents raise.

In my opinion.

 

[Skwim]

In the two examples I considered above, a person is being fooled or intimidated by other people using loaded words and ideas to stigmatize them personally, for what they believe or don’t believe. Part of my defense against that is learning never to do it myself. Another part of it is learning more about where people are getting their ideas, and doing my own research, allowing for them to be right. All that might apply more generally to all the ways that people are fooled and intimidated. Learning not to use those tactics, myself, learning more about where people are getting their ideas, and doing my own research.

Tell you what, I think you'd be doing yourself a favor by looking into first year logic. One that explains validity, soundness, and truth, and perhaps the 19 forms of syllogistic arguments. And probably most important of all, the various kinds of informal fallacious arguments. Here's a start: 15 Logical Fallacies You Should Know Before Getting Into a Debate For a more extensive list see Wikipedia's compilation.

.

 

[dybmh]

how to avoid being fooled or intimidated into silence or submission

OK... here's what I think works:

1) don't let your critical thinking skills atrophy. Use it - or - lose it.

2) Sleep... no one makes sense when they're tired. if you're having trouble sleeping... don't make grand assumptions about anything. That helps on both fronts: not being fooled, and not making grand assumptions which invite ridicule from the jackals who enjoy embarrassing people.

 

[Rival]

It's just words on a digital page, bro. No need to respond and if you're wrong just say you're wrong.

 

[Harel13]

If someone writes something that infuriates you, yell a bit at the screen, take a deep breath, go for a walk, takes some more deep breaths, and then think out your reply and type it out calmly.

 

[Jim]

And if their views are “unscientific” and “unsupported by evidence,” and yours are “science,” “scientific” or “what science says”? Then what, clam up?


And If they are, why not? Are you afraid of science?


Curious, don't you often sidetrack yourself by investigating the precise meaning of an individual's use of these terms?

.

In my discussions with people, I’m not trying to debate with them. I’m trying to understand what they’re thinking and why, and help them understand what I’m thinking and why, if they want to. The reason I post in debate forums sometimes is allow as much room as possible for people to say what they think.

 

[dybmh]

It's just words on a digital page, bro. No need to respond and if you're wrong just say you're wrong.

Wow sister.. you make it sound so easy...