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Featured Watchtower: Jesus is not "a god"!

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Oeste, Jul 16, 2020.

  1. Soapy

    Soapy Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince

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    Wow, you are so deluded! Sorry to say that to someone whom I’m trying to convince is wrong… but you really do take the biscuit!

    You do not know even what you are saying.

    IT IS TRUE… it is true that “SOMEONE’S God”can take any form ‘IT’ likes……….

    YOUR GOD is a god of delusion!

    You say that MY God is not almighty… you are saying that MY Jesus is almighty… No!!! I do not express that delusional thought!

    Jesus is not ‘Almighty’, not ‘Almighty God’ either.

    Can you show me something that makes you think that Jesus is almighty God? AND how almighty God can give up being almighty God and yet remain almighty God? AND how is it an almighty God is REWARDED with what he already is almighty over: Creation!?

    The question is three questions rolled into one - a tri-part question of which all parts are inseparable and must be answered together.
     
  2. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Active Member

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    I reply... And your point is?

    JerryMyers You have only your own interpration of scriptures! You are not a scripture scholer! You have a bible, you read into God' word what you want God to have said!
    JerryMyers Scriptures are the words of God.. "The CHURCH is the piller and the foundation of teuth"! "The CHURCH is the truth" the CHURCH is Christian!.. Christians worship Jesus!
    Scriptures are the words of God.. "Listen to the CHURCH or be treated as a Pagan"! Pagans are OUTSIDE of God' family! God' family is Christian.. Christians teach "Jesus is God"!
    Scriptures are the words of God.. "I will be with you ALWAYS to the end of time"! Jesus is with his CHRISTIAN Church ALWAYS WITH; yours came along 1900 years AFTER Jesus established his Church! Logic says..Your man made church MUST be a lie, history tells us your Church was NOT established by Jesus! Jesus never left his Christian Church! Christians teach "Jesus is God"!

    JerryMyers Arius WAS a Christian he was AMONG Christians until he taught Jesus is NOT God.. Christians REJECTED Arius, he was REMOVED from AMONG Christians as a False Teacher!
    Scripture Prophesy..
    2 Peter 2 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.

    JerryMyers As usual you will have to reject scripture! This PROPHESY cannot work in the reverse "Christians were NOT AMONG Arius!" This PROPHESY PROVES the teaching of Arius is a LIE it is a False teaching, it comes from a Heritic! (introduce destructive heresies) Verse #2 (above) proves the Christian Church is "The Way of Truth"! Christians teach and believe "Jesus is God"! You reject what Christians teach you are NOT CHristian! "Listen to the CHURCH!" "The CHURCH is the truth"!
     
  3. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Active Member

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    Soapy Jesus is ALMIGHTY.. Jesus takes the form of a Man and then the form of BREAD! Only God can take any form he wants to take. even a burning bush or fire!
    Christians teach "Jesus is God"! Christians have ALWAYS taught "Jesus is GOD"! Thomas is a Christian he tells you "Jesus is GOD!"
    Scriptures tell you "Listen to the CHURCH"; the Scriptures tell you "The CHURCH is the Piller and the foundation of TRUTH"! The ONLY CHURCH Jesus established will never fall it is built not on sand but ROCK: your church is corupt because it rejects Christian teaching for man made teaching!
    The Christian Church is the Pillar and foundation of Truth; the Christian Church teaches "Jesus is God"!
    "Listen to the CHURCH or be treated as Pagan!'
    Soapy A Pagan is a person OUTSIDE of God' family, he is NOT Christain!

    The WORD was GOD the Word became MAN and lived among us!
    John 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

    Christians believe the scriptures they do NOT reject the words of God! "Listen to the CHURCH!"
    Jesus established a CHURCH 2000 years ago, he built on ROCK His CHURCH was NOT built on sand.it is still here today it is NOT your man made church! You have placed your salvaion in a man made Church! You MUST reject the scriptures to believe the lies of your church!
     
  4. Clear

    Clear Well-Known Member
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    Regarding offering fake versions of John 1:18

    Fake version #1 : “No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.” (Dogknox20, post 1563)

    Less Fake version #2 : “No one has ever seen the unbegotten Father God at any time, but the only begotten Son, who is NOT himself the Father, explained the Father to us.”


    If Dogknox20 is going to quote fake biblical text then version #2 of John 1:18 is just as accurate as the version #1.


    Once we enter the world of fake text, then any text can be equally valid.


    Readers may use the first version to justify the belief that Jesus is the same as the Father
    OR,
    Readers may use the second version to justify the belief that Jesus is different than the Father.

    Both versions are equally valid.


    Clear
    φυσισετωσιω
     
  5. Dropship

    Dropship Member

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    Was Jesus God?
    Nah..:)

    "A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
    “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered, “No one is good except God alone" (Luke 18:19)

    Jesus said - "Only God knows when Judgment Day will be, I don't know myself" (Mark 13:32)

    Jesus said - "I say nothing of my own accord, i only say what my father tells me to say.." (John 12:49)

    Jesus said to God the day before his execution- “Father, the hour has come...I am coming to you now" (John 17:13)

    And of course God himself said - "This is my beloved son, listen to him" (Matt 17:5)
     
  6. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Active Member

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    John 1:18 is an interpratation of EXPERTS is scripture... Scholers all of them!
    I don't write the scriptures; I post them!
    Clear John 1:18 tells you Jesus is God.. You don't like it, so for you it instantly becomes a fake verse?! Christians tell you Jesus is God! Scriptures tell you Jesus is God!
    Jesus is God who became man to live with us! Jesus is the God/Man the only PERFECT Man to die! Only God is perfect and sinless!

    Many verses in scriptures tell you Jesus is God! You are forced to twist God' words or outright reject them as LIES from the mouth of God! Christains believe the words of God they believe the scriptures! Until you can prove the scripture Interpreter of John1:18 is fake you MUST accept it as being interpreted correctly! If you in any way can prove the interpreter is a fake; I will give you another and another to do the same!
    GO NUTS... Knock yourself out..... Prove these scripture Scholers (below) are fake!
    CSB
    No one has ever seen God. The one and only Son, who is himself God and is at the Father’s side—he has revealed him.
    CJB
    No one has ever seen God; but the only and unique Son, who is identical with God and is at the Father’s side — he has made him known.
    CEV
    No one has ever seen God. The only Son, who is truly God and is closest to the Father, has shown us what God is like.
    DLNT
    No one has ever seen God; the only-born God, the One being in the bosom of the Father— that One expounded Him.

    GOOD LUCK lol
     
  7. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Active Member

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    Dropship You quote scriptures as if they are the end all....
    Christians teach; Jesus is God they always have taught "Jesus is God"! Are you an expert in scripture interpretation?
    The scriptures tell you.. "Listen to the CHURCH"!
    The scriptures tell you... "The CHURCH is the pillar and the foundation of truth!"

    Dropship The scriptures tell you if; "You refuse to listen to the CHURCH you then reject God!"
    John 10:16 Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me.”
    '
    CSB
    No one has ever seen God. The one and only Son, who is himself God and is at the Father’s side—he has revealed him.
    CJB
    No one has ever seen God; but the only and unique Son, who is identical with God and is at the Father’s side — he has made him known.
    CEV
    No one has ever seen God. The only Son, who is truly God and is closest to the Father, has shown us what God is like.
    DLNT
    No one has ever seen God; the only-born God, the One being in the bosom of the Father— that One expounded Him.

    Matthew 1:23 “The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel” (which means “God with us”).

    Dropship God himself tells you "Jesus is God"..
    ISAIAH 7:14
    The Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold—the virgin will conceive and give birth to a son and will name him God Among Us.

    Scriptures are clear Jesus is God! Christians tell you "Jesus is God!" Thomas is a CHRISTIAN he is a "Christ Follower"! He is an Apostle!
    John 20:28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
    29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed
    .”
    Dropship Jesus is telling you in the verse above #29 you are NOT blessed!
     
  8. Clear

    Clear Well-Known Member
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    Hi @Dogknox20

    REGARDING OFFERING FAKE SCRIPTURES FOR JOHN 1:18

    1) One Fake version (among multiple fakes) of John 1:18 offered to readers was : “No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.” (Dogknox20, post 1563)


    Dogknox20 claimed : John 1:18 is an interpratation of EXPERTS is scripture...

    I did not say the fake text was created by ignorant people or non-experts at fake text.
    I think your admission that the creators of this text are trying to offer their interpretative doctrinal commentary of what the text means to them inside their own theology is what they are doing instead of translating the text.

    Obviously, it is not an accurate or authentic translation of any known source text of John 1:18.
    I simply pointed out that the text you offered readers was fake and that no source material exists for the text as you offered it.

    Whether an expert or an idiot created the fake, it remains fake and not authentic scripture.



    2) Dogknox repeated the stock statement : "I don't write the scriptures; I post them!

    Dogknox20, I did not claim that YOU wrote the fake text that you are pretending to be actual and authentic scripture.
    However, in this case you are not posting "scripture", but you are posting a commentary that is posing as though it was scripture.

    I simply revealed the fact that the text you offered as "scripture" was fake.

    There is no New Testament source text that can be correctly translated according to your fake "scripture".

    Dogknox20 or other Readers : Do you want me to provide you with all known greek source variants of John 1:18 and we can discuss what the original text actually says?




    3) Dogknox20 said : Clear
    John 1:18 tells you Jesus is God.. You don't like it, so for you it instantly becomes a fake verse?!
    I did not say I liked or disliked fake text or that I liked or disliked the doctrine itself.

    I simply think it is dishonest to offer fake text to readers as though it is authentic since some of the readers may not be familiar enough with the text to know it is a fake and inaccurate text you're offer ing them.

    It is a fake because it is not an authentic or correct translation of any known New Testament source text.

    My point Dogklnox20, is that IF you are going to offer fake text, you should TELL readers you are offering fake text so that they realize they are not actually reading scripture when they read your quote posing as scripture.



    4) THE CHALLENGE FOR ANY READER ON THE FORUM (OR ANYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD)

    FIND AN AUTHENTIC NEW TESTAMENT GREEK SOURCE TEXT OF JOHN 1:18 THAT CAN BE ACCURATELY TRANSLATED INTO THE FAKE TEXT OFFERED READERS BY DOGKNOX20


    READERS : IF ANYONE ON THE FORUM CAN FIND ANY NEW TESTAMENT GREEK SOURCE TEXT THAT CAN BE ACCURATELY TRANSLATED INTO THE FAKE VERSION OFFERED BY DOGKNOX20, TELL US.

    ANYONE?


    The main Greek source text of John 1:18 that uses the word "God" for Jesus is : θεοσ οθδεισ εωρακεν πωποτε ο μονογενεσ θεοσ ο ων εισ τον κολπον του πατροσ εκεινοσ εξεγησατο." (while there are variants [only begotten God,..son, etc] , NONE of the variants correlate to the fake text)

    Does ANY greek reader on the forum wish to claim this source text can be accurately translated into the Fake version offered by Dogknox20?

    ANYONE?

    Clear
    φυσισεσετζω
     
    #1568 Clear, Oct 14, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2021
  9. Dropship

    Dropship Member

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    Alright mister smarty pants, check this out-

    "Jesus asked his disciples..“Who do you say I am?”
    Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
    Jesus replied, “Blessed are you..for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven" (Matt 16:13-17)


    See, Jesus didn't say "Wrong, guess again"..:p
     
  10. JerryMyers

    JerryMyers Active Member

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    You replied???! What exactly did you reply to???!

    Clearly, you have NOT replied to any of my questions nor have you responded or offer any logical rebuttal to any of my comments – YOU just REACTED to my questions and comments by rambling NONSENSE like a brain-washed cult follower and you STILL ramble NONSENSE!!

    So why don’t you FOR ONCE, respond or rebut, NOT REACT with rambling NONSENSE, to my comments/questions.

    Here are my comments again to your recent NONSENSE attempts to tailor-fit your FALSE belief into the scripture. Now respond or rebut logically and rationally. What you should NOT DO is react with rambling NONSENSE. Now go ahead and respond or rebut, if you can. Don’t disappoint me.

    FACT: Without the support from the Words of God or/and the words of His prophets, your rambling of ‘Jesus is God’ is just PURE NONSENSE! Nothing to argue about that!!

    FACT: No church or any group can guide you into the truth, ONLY God through His Holy Spirit can do that!

    FACT: Jesus NEVER uses the cross to symbolize anything in his entire lifetime!! So, using the cross to symbolize Christianity is an innovation of man LONG AFTER Jesus had departed!

    FACT: Jesus NEVER knew or heard of the term ‘Christian’, so, the term ‘Christian’ NEVER came from Jesus BUT WAS COINED UP long after Jesus had departed!!

    FACT: NOT all Christians believe Jesus is God!! ONLY those who are spiritually lost believe Jesus is God!!

    FACT: Jesus prayed to God “Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent” (John 17:3). Why did Jesus say that IF he’s God Himself??
     
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  11. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Active Member

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    Dropship Right you are.. Jesus cannot lie! Jesus is a PERFECT MAN! Only God is PEFECT!
    this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven
    God from heaven kept Peter from making error! God told Peter the TRUTH who Jesus was.. the Messiah, the Son of the living God.

    Jesus is the SON of God the Holy Spirit!
    Jesus is the Son of Mary the Perpetual virgin!
    Jesus is a God/Man! Jesus has a Father.. GOD!
    You prove nothing except the progeny of the Father has the same likenesses as the Father. I am sure your children look and act more like chickens then you!
    Jesus is Immanuel” (which means “God with us”).

    Jesus did not say to Thomas "Wrong, guess again"..:p Jesus told Thomas; The people coming along in the future are Blessed believing the same as he (Thomas)!
    Jesus told Thomas those people who do NOT believe as Thomas (Jesus is God) will not be Blessed!

    Elizabeth is a Jew Elizabeth' husband is a High Priest Zechariah; Elizabeth would never ever believe in TWO God.. Jews have only ONE God!
    Luke 1:41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42 In a loud voice she exclaimed: “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! 43 But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

    QUESTION: WHO...
    Dropship
    who is Elizabeth's Lord!" THINK... Every verse in the whole Chapter of Luke 1 where the word "LORD" is written you can substitute the word God!
    Luke 1:6 Both of them were righteous in the sight of God, observing all the Lord’s commands and decrees blamelessly.
    Luke 1:8 Once when Zechariah’s division was on duty and he was serving as priest before God, 9 he was chosen by lot, according to the custom of the priesthood, to go into the temple of the Lord and burn incense.
    Luke 1:16 He will bring back many of the people of Israel to the Lord their God.
    17 And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the parents to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous—to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

    Dropship There is NO way that Elizabeth would means the word LORD does NOT means her GOD!
    Luke 1:46 And Mary said:
    “My soul glorifies the Lord
    47 and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior
    ,

    Dropship Jesus is SAVIOR!
    Jews have ONLY ONE GOD/LORD! Mary is the mother of Elizabeth's GOD!
     
  12. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Active Member

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    JerryMyers First right off... You are making accusations NO Facts! Your words... your recent NONSENSE attempts to tailor-fit your FALSE belief into the scripture
    Scriptures tell you "Jesus is God" the Holy Church tells you Jesus is God!
    The Holy Spirit is guiding the ONLY CHURCH Jesus established .. NOT YOU or your man made CHURCH!
    1 Timothy 3:15
    if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.
    The CHURCH is the Pillar of TRUTH!
    The CHURCH is the House of God!
    The CHURCH is the Body of Jesus!
    The CHURCH is Holy and BLAMELESS!
    Jesus died for his CHURCH!
    Jesus LOVES his CHURCH!
    25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

    JerryMyers You are forced to reject LOGIC, scriptures and GOD to reject the truth! To be in Protest against the CHURCH you MUST reject the scriptures!
    Matthew 1:23The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel” (which means “God with us”).
    JerryMyers Did you see it? “God with us
    Isaiah 7:14
    Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.
    GOD tells you Jesus is "God with us"
    JerryMyers Jesus is IMMANUAL!

    You MUST reject the scriptures to say "Jesus is NOT Immanuel!" All you have left is your accusations NO Facts!

    Christians use the CROSS as their SYMBOL of unity! Satan would never ever put a CROSS on any of his churches the CROSS was the downfall of Satan! Christians us the CROSS! None Christians reject the cross, they refuse to display the cross, they refuse the Cross because they are NOT Christian!
     
  13. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Active Member

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    Isaiah 7:14
    Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.
    Matthew 1:23 “The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel” (which means “God with us”).

    God the Father the Lord himself tells you Jesus is GOD.. Immanuel!

    Thomas the CHRISTIAN; tells you "Jesus is GOD!" Jesus replied.. Those who believe the same are blessed! ALL Christians believe Jesus is GOD!
    Those who reject Christian belief; those who do NOT accept Thomas's God are NOT Blessed!

    Clear John 1 tells you Jesus is GOD! Christians accept the scriptures as God' words, Christians KNOW God cannot lie or mislead! NON Christians MUST reject the scriptures as lies from God! Non Christian must twist God' words or claim the scriptures are Fake!
    Clear The Interpretation of scriptures is done by the CHURCH not by individual people! The CHURCH teaches Jesus is GOD: THE CHURCH is guided by the Holy Spirit!!
    The CHURCH is the Pillar and foundation of TRUTH!
    The CHURCH is Guided by GOD the Holy Spirit into all truth!
    The CHURCH is Guided by the Holy Spirit FOREVER.. This means Non Christians are in error guided by Satan or other Anti-Christs!
    Jesus established ONE CHURCH two thousand years ago, built on ROCK it will never ever fall! It is NOT yours!

    John 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever

    I Timothy 3:15 if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

    John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
    Christians teach "Jesus is GOD"!
    Christians use the CROSS as their symbol of unity! Satan was defeated by the CROSS he would never ever put a CROSS on any of his churches!
     
  14. Clear

    Clear Well-Known Member
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    REGARDING OFFERING FAKE SCRIPTURES FOR JOHN 1:18

    1) One Fake version (among multiple fakes) of John 1:18 offered to readers was : “No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.” (Dogknox20, post 1563)


    Dogknox20 claimed : John 1:18 is an interpratation of EXPERTS is scripture...

    I did not say the fake text was created by ignorant people or non-experts at fake text.
    I think your admission that the creators of this text are trying to offer their interpretative doctrinal commentary of what the text means to them inside their own theology is what they are doing instead of translating the text.

    Obviously, it is not an accurate or authentic translation of any known source text of John 1:18.
    I simply pointed out that the text you offered readers was fake and that no source material exists for the text as you offered it.

    Whether an expert or an idiot created the fake, it remains fake and not authentic scripture.



    2) Dogknox repeated the stock statement : "I don't write the scriptures; I post them!

    Dogknox20, I did not claim that YOU wrote the fake text that you are pretending to be actual and authentic scripture.
    However, in this case you are not posting "scripture", but you are posting a commentary that is posing as though it was scripture.

    I simply revealed the fact that the text you offered as "scripture" was fake.

    There is no New Testament source text that can be correctly translated according to your fake "scripture".

    Dogknox20 or other Readers : Do you want me to provide you with all known greek source variants of John 1:18 and we can discuss what the original text actually says?




    3) Dogknox20 said : Clear
    John 1:18 tells you Jesus is God.. You don't like it, so for you it instantly becomes a fake verse?!
    I did not say I liked or disliked fake text or that I liked or disliked the doctrine itself.

    I simply think it is dishonest to offer fake text to readers as though it is authentic since some of the readers may not be familiar enough with the text to know it is a fake and inaccurate text you're offer ing them.

    It is a fake because it is not an authentic or correct translation of any known New Testament source text.

    My point Dogklnox20, is that IF you are going to offer fake text, you should TELL readers you are offering fake text so that they realize they are not actually reading scripture when they read your quote posing as scripture.



    4) THE CHALLENGE FOR ANY READER ON THE FORUM (OR ANYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD)

    FIND AN AUTHENTIC NEW TESTAMENT GREEK SOURCE TEXT OF JOHN 1:18 THAT CAN BE ACCURATELY TRANSLATED INTO THE FAKE TEXT OFFERED READERS BY DOGKNOX20


    READERS : IF ANYONE ON THE FORUM CAN FIND ANY NEW TESTAMENT GREEK SOURCE TEXT THAT CAN BE ACCURATELY TRANSLATED INTO THE FAKE VERSION OFFERED BY DOGKNOX20, TELL US.

    ANYONE?


    The main Greek source text of John 1:18 that uses the word "God" for Jesus is : θεοσ οθδεισ εωρακεν πωποτε ο μονογενεσ θεοσ ο ων εισ τον κολπον του πατροσ εκεινοσ εξεγησατο." (while there are variants [only begotten God,..son, etc] , NONE of the variants correlate to the fake text)

    Does ANY greek reader on the forum wish to claim this source text can be accurately translated into the Fake version offered by Dogknox20?

    ANYONE?

    Clear






    DOGKNOX20 REPLIED : "John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. "


    @Dogknox20, How is this relevant to justify you offering untruth in the form of fake scriptures to readers?

    Are you saying that you don't have the spirit to be with you and this justifies your offering readers false text as scripture?

    IF this is what you are admitting to, I do not think it justifies offering false text to readers.


    Clear
    φυσισισιτωω
     
    #1574 Clear, Oct 15, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2021
  15. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Active Member

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    Scriptures are God' words.. ALL of them including John 1:18
    Isaiah 7:14
    Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.
    Matthew 1:23 “The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel” (which means “God with us”).

    God the Father the Lord himself tells you Jesus is GOD.. Immanuel!

    Thomas the CHRISTIAN; tells you "Jesus is GOD!" Jesus replied.. Those who believe the same are blessed! ALL Christians believe Jesus is GOD!
    Those who reject Christian belief; those who do NOT accept Thomas's God are NOT Blessed!

    Clear John 1 tells you Jesus is GOD! Christians accept the scriptures as God' words, Christians KNOW God cannot lie or mislead! NON Christians MUST reject the scriptures as lies from God! Non Christian must twist God' words or claim the scriptures are Fake!
    Clear The Interpretation of scriptures is done by the CHURCH not by individual people! The CHURCH teaches Jesus is GOD: THE CHURCH is guided by the Holy Spirit!!
    The CHURCH is the Pillar and foundation of TRUTH!
    The CHURCH is Guided by GOD the Holy Spirit into all truth!
    The CHURCH is Guided by the Holy Spirit FOREVER.. This means Non Christians are in error guided by Satan or other Anti-Christs!
    Jesus established ONE CHURCH two thousand years ago, built on ROCK it will never ever fall! It is NOT yours!

    John 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever

    I Timothy 3:15 if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

    John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
    Christians teach "Jesus is GOD"!
    Christians use the CROSS as their symbol of unity! Satan was defeated by the CROSS he would never ever put a CROSS on any of his churches!
    Clear The CHURCH is guided into all TRUTH.. Not YOU! You reject "The TRUTH"!
    The CHURCH teaches... She teaches TRUTH!
    The CHURCH is Christian; she teaches "Jesus is GOD"! All Christians believe "Jesus is God"
    All Christians KNOW the scriptures are God' holy Words.. Even John 1:18

    Almighty God says: “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end . . .”
    Rev 21:6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life.
    7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children
    .

    Rev 22:12Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.
    13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

    Clear Jesus is the Alpha & The Omega! GOD is the Alpha and the Omega!

    Clear you have been lied to by your teachers... Below is the correct translation of the Greek
    BibleRef.com
    In verse 18, "seeing God" is meant in the sense of seeing God the Father in a physical, literal sense. God chose to reveal Himself in certain forms in the past, but He is essentially a Spirit (John 4:24). The gospel of John describes Jesus as the "Word" of God, using the Greek word logos. Jesus is the message, or the definition, of God. Words are tangible symbols of ideas, both for our eyes and our ears. The fact that God came in human form is critical. Jesus is a human being who experiences our struggles (Hebrews 4:15), one to whom we can relate. Jesus is a message from God, in a language we all understand: relationship. Jesus explains God to us in a way we could never understand otherwise. Here, John also repeats the claim that Jesus is God. The Greek term monogenes is used here, as well as in verse 14 and John 3:16, both for the phrase "one and only." This word means Jesus is of the exact same "stuff" as God the Father. This is the first of seven "witnesses" to Jesus' divinity in the gospel of John, and the third of seven names: "The Son of God."
    Context Summary
    John 1:1–18 is a poetic introduction of Jesus Christ. Jesus is referred to using the Greek word Logos, meaning “The Word.” This passage clearly describes Jesus as identical to God, and co-creator with God. These verses summarize Jesus’ ministry and mission on Earth. The passage also explains how John the Baptist (a different John from the author of this gospel) was sent ahead of Christ to prepare for His arrival.


     
  16. JerryMyers

    JerryMyers Active Member

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    First right off….. you are STILL talking NONSENSE! You can’t even rebut, let alone respond LOGICALLY! Do you know why? That's because your FALSE belief is NOT based on what Jesus said nor was it based on what God said!

    You brought out 1Timothy 3:15 and Ephesians 5:25-27 and claimed ‘Jesus is God’, so tell me which part of these passages said or even implied Jesus is God?? The truth is you got NOTHING, Dogknox20! All you have is a ‘talent’ in churning out NONSENSE time and time again!

    You claim Jesus is God because he’s called ‘Immanuel’ which means ‘God with us’. Did I ever tell you I rejected Jesus being called ‘Immanuel’?? I NEVER did, did I?? So, stop making assumptions and talking NONSENSE!!

    And do you know WHY Jesus whom the angel said Mary will conceive WITHOUT the participation of man will be called ‘Immanuel’ or ‘God with us’?? It’s NOT BECAUSE Jesus is God, It’s because Jesus IS THE SIGN from God Almighty to us that He, the ONLY God Almighty do exists and He’s always with us – Isaiah 7:14. The irony is, you quoted Isaiah 7:14 BUT ignored that it CLEARLY said “Therefore the Lord Himself WILL GIVE YOU A SIGN:”, it DID NOT say “Therefore the Lord Himself will reincarnate Himself into the womb of Mary and be born”!! So, again your continuous rambling of ‘Jesus is God’ is just pure NONSENSE which is NOT even supported by the scripture BUT your NONSENSE is based on your INABILITY to understand your own scripture and your ABILITY to spin NONSENSE out of the scripture!

    If you think you are a true follower of Jesus Christ, which obviously you are not, then, why are you still acting like a broken record and keep bringing up the cross as a symbol of Christianity, when Jesus himself NEVER uses the cross to symbolize anything in his entire life on earth!! Using the cross to symbolize Christianity is an innovation of man LONG AFTER Jesus had departed! Nothing to argue about that!!

    So, you can continue to make a fool of yourself by rambling NONSENSE and I will GLADLY keep exposing your NONSENSE and your inability to understand your own scripture!!
     
  17. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Active Member

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    .
    JerryMyers Christians have always taught "Jesus is God"! Clearly you are NOT Christian! To be Christian you MUST believe what Christians believe!
    You have to reject the scriptures or twist Gods words until God says what you want God to have said! Twist it all you want but ‘Immanuel’ still means ‘God with us

    1Timothy 3:15 & Ephesians 5:25-27 tell you THE CHURCH has the AUTHORITY to teach "Jesus is God"!
    JerryMyers The CHURCH is Holy and Blameless.. The CHURCH is the Love of Jesus! Jesus died for (The CHURCH)!
    JerryMyers It means The CHURCH is CHRISTIAN!

    CHRISTIANS teach "Jesus is God"! The CHURCH is two thousand years old it is CHRISTIAN!

    "Jesus is ALWAYS WITH his Church to the very end of time"! This means: Jesus cannot be with your man made church coming alone 1900 years after Jesus and the TRUTH!
    JerryMyers ALWAYS WITH.. Means; your church is NOT with God! Your Church teaches differently then Jesus' CHRISTIAN Church!

    Matthew 28:20 Teach them to obey everything that I have told you to do. You can be sure that I will be with you always. I will continue with you until the end of time.”

    JerryMyers I keep bringing up the cross as a symbol of Christianity because it is! The football player make the sign before he kicks the ball all instantly know "He is a Christian"! The person with the parachute makes the cross sign before he jumps out a perfectly good airplane; The person is a Christian! EVERY Christian Church has a cross on the building if not outside they have one inside! The CROSS is a Christian symbol!
    THINK: It was on the CROSS that Jesus redeemed us! It was by the CROSS that Satan was defeated! The CROSS is a perfect symbol of Perfect LOVE! Jesus gave himself up for us, ON THE CROSS out of perfect love for us!
    John 10:18
    No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

    Satan rejects Jesus Satan rejects the CROSS; Satan was defeated by The Cross; Satan is Anti-Christ!
    I bring up the CROSS because; All who reject the CROSS are NOT Christian!
     
  18. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    That's possible, but the idea of burning while conscious forever, or being hot in hell does not mean it's 'literally' true. Because it isn't.
     
  19. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    I would just like to mention that the angel told Mary she was to call her son Jesus.
    Luke 1:31 - "You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus."
     
  20. Clear

    Clear Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

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    CLEAR SAID : "REGARDING OFFERING FAKE SCRIPTURES FOR JOHN 1:18

    1) One Fake version (among multiple fakes) of John 1:18 offered to readers was : “No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.” (Dogknox20, post 1563)


    Dogknox20 claimed : John 1:18 is an interpratation of EXPERTS is scripture...

    I did not say the fake text was created by ignorant people or non-experts at fake text.
    I think your admission that the creators of this text are trying to offer their interpretative doctrinal commentary of what the text means to them inside their own theology is what they are doing instead of translating the text.

    Obviously, it is not an accurate or authentic translation of any known source text of John 1:18.
    I simply pointed out that the text you offered readers was fake and that no source material exists for the text as you offered it.

    Whether an expert or an idiot created the fake, it remains fake and not authentic scripture.



    2) Dogknox repeated the stock statement : "I don't write the scriptures; I post them!

    Dogknox20, I did not claim that YOU wrote the fake text that you are pretending to be actual and authentic scripture.
    However, in this case you are not posting "scripture", but you are posting a commentary that is posing as though it was scripture.

    I simply revealed the fact that the text you offered as "scripture" was fake.

    There is no New Testament source text that can be correctly translated according to your fake "scripture".

    Dogknox20 or other Readers : Do you want me to provide you with all known greek source variants of John 1:18 and we can discuss what the original text actually says?




    3) Dogknox20 said : Clear
    John 1:18 tells you Jesus is God.. You don't like it, so for you it instantly becomes a fake verse?!
    I did not say I liked or disliked fake text or that I liked or disliked the doctrine itself.

    I simply think it is dishonest to offer fake text to readers as though it is authentic since some of the readers may not be familiar enough with the text to know it is a fake and inaccurate text you're offer ing them.

    It is a fake because it is not an authentic or correct translation of any known New Testament source text.

    My point Dogklnox20, is that IF you are going to offer fake text, you should TELL readers you are offering fake text so that they realize they are not actually reading scripture when they read your quote posing as scripture.



    4) THE CHALLENGE FOR ANY READER ON THE FORUM (OR ANYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD)

    FIND AN AUTHENTIC NEW TESTAMENT GREEK SOURCE TEXT OF JOHN 1:18 THAT CAN BE ACCURATELY TRANSLATED INTO THE FAKE TEXT OFFERED READERS BY DOGKNOX20


    READERS : IF ANYONE ON THE FORUM CAN FIND ANY NEW TESTAMENT GREEK SOURCE TEXT THAT CAN BE ACCURATELY TRANSLATED INTO THE FAKE VERSION OFFERED BY DOGKNOX20, TELL US.

    ANYONE?


    The main Greek source text of John 1:18 that uses the word "God" for Jesus is : θεοσ οθδεισ εωρακεν πωποτε ο μονογενεσ θεοσ ο ων εισ τον κολπον του πατροσ εκεινοσ εξεγησατο." (while there are variants [only begotten God,..son, etc] , NONE of the variants correlate to the fake text)

    Does ANY greek reader on the forum wish to claim this source text can be accurately translated into the Fake version offered by Dogknox20?

    ANYONE?

    Clear


    DOGKNOX20 REPLIED : "John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. "

    CLEAR REPLIED : Dogknox20, How is this relevant to justify you offering untruth in the form of fake scriptures to readers?

    Are you saying that you don't have the spirit to be with you and this justifies your offering readers false text as scripture?

    IF this is what you are admitting to, I do not think it justifies offering false text to readers.



    IGNORANCE DOES NOT JUSTIFY OFFERING FAKE TEXT AS THOUGH IT WERE BIBLICAL TEXT, BUT INSTEAD COMPOUNDS THE PROBLEM OF CREDIBILITY

    Dogknox20 replied : “Scriptures are God' words.. ALL of them including John 1:18

    YES! I agree that scriptures represent the Word of God.
    I agree that the authentic John 1:18 IS scripture.

    Your text is NOT authentic, biblical, John 1:18 and it is becoming more obvious your attempt to try to continue to offer a fake version of John 1:18 to try to support your doctrine indicates you do not have the type of respect for sacred text that you would like readers to believe you have.

    IF you actually believe that the authentic biblical text are God’s words, then you should NOT change or modify the text with false narratives.
    If you honestly are Christian, then Honor God.
    If you honestly are Christian, then Keep God’s word clean and pure.
    If you honestly are Christian, Do not offer fake versions of his words and try to pass them off as authentic or accurate.
    If you honestly have the respect for God’s word that you want readers to believe you have, then it is WRONG to offer them false and fake text in the hope that they will not notice the text is altered.
    IF you do not have respect for the actual and authentic biblical text, then how can readers trust your religious claims?




    Dogknox20 replied : “Clear you have been lied to by your teachers...


    Um, no. I read Greek. YOU do not.
    I have access to critical biblical texts. YOU do not seem to even understand what a critical greek bible IS.
    I have provided greek John 1:18 to you from GN4. It is the most common standard Greek Text for translators worldwide.
    The NA-28 Greek text provides ALL important variants known to scholars of greek New Testament texts.
    Your fake John 1:18 is not even close to ANY known variant.
    Neither you, nor any other reader in the world can provide a source greek codex or papyri that has the version of John 1:18 your offered readers.
    If someone is lying, I think readers are smart enough to see that your fake John 1:18 is a lie and it has no authentic greek source.

    These specific comments are not meant to reflect positively or negatively on the doctrine, but I am speaking of the fake text and how I do not think one can justify offering readers fake biblical text when trying to support ANY doctrine, whether true OR false.



    Dogknox20 replied : “Below is the correct translation of the Greek”

    Dogknox20, Why would you even think readers are stupid enough to believe the commentary that follows this claim is a "translation" of John 1:18?
    I simply don't understand why you would waste your credibility with such obviously irrational claims.

    What you are claiming as a "translation" of greek John 1:18 has eleven sentences and approximately 266 words in it.
    Greek John 1:18 has two sentences and only 16 words in it.
    How can you be so ignorant of the difference between a "translation" and a "commentary" that you try to pass off a commentary on John 1:18 as a "translation" of John 1:18?
    Do you realize what such silly claims do to your credibility?
    Look up the difference between a translation and a commentary and perhaps you may understand.

    However, IF you do not really know the difference between the actual text of John 1:18 and an extensive commentary on John 1:18, this ignorance means you should not try to tell others what a “translation” entails.


    So, willingness to misrepresenting scripture by offering fake text and ignorance of the concept and application of authentic scripture are problems for you.

    The problem with BOTH the willingness to misrepresent and offer fake scripture and the ignorance of what scripture entails is going to cause a credibility gap for you and readers.
    If one is willing to lie or misrepresent, and one is ignorant of even the basic concept of scripture, then how are readers going to be able to trust the claims of someone who is dishonest and ignorant?

    So, while you and I agree on some of the doctrines, I hesitate to have you on my doctrinal team.



    Clear
    φυσιακτωφιω
     
    #1580 Clear, Oct 16, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2021
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