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Featured Watchtower: Jesus is not "a god"!

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Oeste, Jul 16, 2020.

  1. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Well-Known Member

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    Soapy Jesus never stops any of the worship of himself! Jesus KNOWS Worship is ONLY FOR GOD!
    Thomas tells you "Jesus is his God"! Jesus never corrects Thomas.. Fact is.. He tells Thomas Christians in the future are Blessed if they believe as Thomas does!
    Jesus in his statement to Thomas tells YOU.. That you are NOT blessed!
    9 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

    Soapy YES.. Christians are Christ followers! Arius WAS a CHRISTIAN until he was removed from AMONG Christians as a False Teacher! Christians removed Arius because he taught "Jesus is NOT God!" Christians ARE.. The WAY of TRUTH!
    But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.

    Soapy Christians are NOT AMONG Arius! Arius was AMONG Christians until he was removed.. This Prophesy can ONLY work in the one direction! Try and twist it all you want it still tells you "You are NOT Christian"!

    John 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

    Soapy The WORD became FLESH and lived with us!
    Matthew 1:23
    The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel” (which means “God with us”).
    Isaiah 7:14
    Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.

    Soapy Christians WORSHIP Jesus because: Jesus is God!
    Christians have ALWAYS worship Jesus!
     
  2. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Well-Known Member

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    Soapy Moses & Jacob saw God... Face to face
    Genesis 32:30 So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, “It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared.”

    Exodus 33:11 The Lord would speak to Moses face to face, as one speaks to a friend. Then Moses would return to the camp, but his young aide Joshua son of Nun did not leave the tent.

    Baptize in the name of God! Father Son and Holy Spirit!
    All the authority of heaven has been given to Jesus!

    Adam saw God Face to Face!
    22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.
    US Plural.. More then one!
     
  3. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    The origin of the word "Christian", coming from Acts, pertained to Antioch. The original Jewish followers in Jerusalem would be considered as Ebionites, who required the keeping of the Law, and had James as their leader, who were eventually pushed aside by the following Gentile sect of the Roman citizen, Paul, and eventually by his Lord, Caesar. Now if you are a Mormon, then the term "Christian" comes around 72 BC in America, according to Alma 46:13-15. As for what Yeshua commanded in order to enter into life, that would be to keep the commandments (Matthew 19:16-17). What the pope commands is to kiss his ring. As for God/Allah keeping Peter on the straight and narrow, apparently Allah was also to preserve the original Quran, which did not happen. As for Peter, he was apparently cursed, for he was hung onto a tree into the night. Under the authority of the pope, the heir of Peter, Joan of Arc was hung onto a tree, and burned, and therefore was not cursed, for she did not hang into the night. Those who call killers their "fathers", are doomed to have the guilt of the victim's blood fall on them (Matthew 23:34-37).

    As for the Catholics, they are cursed also with there being about 24 different sects, of which the eastern orthodox has their own pope.
     
  4. JerryMyers

    JerryMyers Active Member

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    Nonsense !! How can all of them be the inspired words of God when it’s proven and even admitted by Christian scholars themselves that there are verses that are edited, added, or changed in your Bible!!!

    More nonsense !! Common sense should tell you that if Jesus even told Satan to worship and serve ONLY God (Matt.4:10), you think he would then ask man to worship and serve him as God too???!! THINK !!

    And who said worship is only for God??!!
    The word ‘worshiped’ in Matthew 28:9 and Matthew 14:33 (NOT Matthew 14:13 as you wrongly stated) was translated from the Greek word ‘proskuneo’. And here’s an excerpt of the definition as given by the KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon

    3. in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication

    used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank

    1. to the Jewish high priests
    2. to God
    3. to Christ
    4. to heavenly beings
    5. to demons

    https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/proskuneo.html

    The fact that the KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon placed ‘to God’ and ‘to Christ’ separately, tells us that the worship of Jesus IS NOT the same as the worship of God. The worship of Jesus is an expression of deep respect which should NOT be confused with the worship of God which is an expression of total submission.

    As I said your belief that Jesus is God is SIMPLY NONSENSE because you cannot back your claims with the words of God Almighty and/or His prophet, Jesus, and trying to tailor-fit your nonsense belief into the words of Jesus just exposed how faulty your comprehension logic and rationale are !!!
     
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  5. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Well-Known Member

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    JerryMyers You are mixed up!
    1) Jesus knows "Worship is ONLY for God"! He told Satan Worship is ONLY for God! Jesus never stops anyone from worship of himself! Jesus would be sinning if he allows worship knowing it is ONLY for God.. Jesus MUST be God!
    Matthew 28:17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.

    2) JerryMyers God tells you "GOD TELLS YOU" >>>>HIMSELF<<<< .. A virgin will give birth and name her child.. "GOD with US"!
    Matthew 1:23
    “The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel” (which means “God with us”).
    Isaiah 7:14
    Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.

    3) JerryMyers Thomas is a CHRISTIAN.. A Christ Follower! He is an Apostle! Thomas tells you "Jesus is his GOD"! LOOK what Jesus does.... Jesus does NOT correct Thomas.. NO!
    Jesus tells Thomas and YOU that those coming after Thomas are BLESSED because they believe; Jesus is God without seeing him!
    28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
    29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.

    JerryMyers Clearly Jesus is telling you.. "You are NOT blessed" you reject what Christians believe!

    4) JerryMyers Arius WAS a Christian! Arius was AMONG Christians until he taught "Jesus is NOT God"!
    2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.

    Clearly "The Way Of Truth" verse #2 is CHRISTIAN belief "Jesus is God!" Christians worship Jesus they ALWAYS HAVE!
     
  6. tigger2

    tigger2 Active Member

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    .........................................................
    Immanuel
    Should Jesus really be considered to be God because he was symbolically “named” Immanuel (Is. 7:14; Mt. 1:23) which means “God is with us”? No more so than Gabriel was calling himself God when he visited Mary and declared: “The Lord is with thee” - Luke 1:28. Nor did Zacharias mean that John the Baptizer (his new son) was actually God when he was asked, “I wonder what this child [John] will turn out to be?”, and he answered, “Praise the Lord, the God of Israel, for he has come to visit his people and has redeemed them.” - Luke 1:66-68, LB.

    Gabriel and Zacharias (Zechariah) meant exactly what Israelites have meant throughout thousands of years when saying “God is with us” and similar statements. They meant “God has favored us” or “God is helping us”! - Gen. 21:22; Ex. 18:19; Nu. 23:21; Josh. 1:9; 1 Chron. 17:2; 2 Chron. 1:1; 35:21; Ezra 1:3; Is. 8:10. And Joshua 1:17; 1 Samuel 10:7; 2 Chron. 15:2-4, 9 (cf., Jer. 1:8; Haggai 1:13). But if we insist on trinitarian-type “proof,” then Gabriel must have meant that he (Gabriel) is God! And Zacharias (whose own name means ‘Jehovah is renowned’ - p. 678, TDOTB) must have meant that John the Baptizer is God! – Also see 1 Sam. 17:37; 2 Sam. 14:17; 1 Ki. 8:57; 1 Chron. 17:2; 22:18; 2 Chron. 36:23; Is. 41:10; Amos 5:14; Zech 8:23.

    This understanding is seen throughout the Bible. For example, “But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all, the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and declare that God is really among you.” - 1 Corinthians 14:24-25, RSV.

    Or, in a Psalm many of us apply to ourselves or our friends:

    4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil; for thou art with me - ASV.

    The widely acclaimed trinitarian Bible dictionary, The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, 1986, Vol. 2, pp. 86, 87, states:

    “The name Emmanuel [or Immanuel] which occurs in Isa. 7:14 and 8:8 means lit. ‘God [is] with us’ .... In the context of the times of Isaiah and King Ahaz the name is given to a child as yet not conceived with the promise that the danger now threatening Israel from Syria and Samaria will pass ‘before the child knows how to refuse evil and choose the good.’ Thus, the child and its name is a sign of God’s gracious saving presence among his people .... [The name Emmanuel] could be a general statement that the birth and naming of the special child will indicate that the good hand of God is upon us.” - p. 86. And, “The point of the present passage [Matt. 1:23] is to see in the birth of Jesus a saving act of God, comparable with the birth of the first Emmanuel. Both births signify God’s presence with his people through a child.” - p. 87.

    Or as noted trinitarian scholar Murray J. Harris tells us:

    “Matthew [in Matt. 1:23] is not saying, ‘Someone who is “God” is now physically with us,’ but ‘God is acting on our behalf in the person of Jesus.’” - p. 258, Jesus as God, Baker Book House, 1992.
    ............................................................
     
  7. tigger2

    tigger2 Active Member

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    Worship

    The Greek word proskuneo (or proskyneo) is defined in the 1971 trinitarian United Bible Societies’ A Concise Greek-English Dictionary of the New Testament, p. 154: “[Proskuneo] worship; fall down and worship, kneel, bow low, fall at another’s feet.”

    Even the trinitarian W. E. Vine writes in his An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, p. 1247:

    “PROSKUNEO ... to make obeisance, do reverence to (from pros, towards, and kuneo, to kiss), is the most frequent word rendered ‘to worship’. It is used for an act of homage or reverence (a) to God ...; (b) to Christ ...; (c) to a man, Matt. 18:26.”

    “Obeisance,” of course, shows “respect, submission, or reverence” - Webster’s New Collegiate Dictionary, 1961.

    Noted Bible scholar J. H. Thayer defines proskuneo:
    “prop. to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence ... hence in the N. T. by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication. It is used a. of homage shown to men of superior rank [position] ... Rev. 3:9 .... b. of homage rendered to God and the ascended Christ, to heavenly beings [angels]” - p. 548, Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, Baker Book House Publ., 1977.

    Hasting’s A Dictionary of the Bible tells us:
    “Worship, both as [noun] and verb, was formerly used of reverence or honour done to men as well as to God …” - p. 941, vol. 4.

    The Hebrew word most often translated “worship” is shachah, and it is usually rendered as proskuneo in the Greek Septuagint version of the Old Testament.

    Unger and White say of this word: “Shachah ... ‘to worship, prostrate oneself, bow down.’” And,

    “The act of bowing down in homage done before a superior [in rank] or a ruler. Thus David ‘bowed’ himself [shachah] before Saul (1 Sam. 24:8). Sometimes it is a social or economic superior to whom one bows, as when Ruth ‘bowed’ [shachah] to the ground before Boaz (Ruth 2:10).” - Nelson’s Expository Dictionary of the Old Testament, 1980, Thomas Nelson Publ., p. 482.

    Perhaps the most famous Biblical Hebrew scholar of all, Gesenius, tells us in Gesenius’ Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon to the Old Testament, p. 813, (#7812), ‘Shachah’:
    “(1) to prostrate oneself before anyone out of honor .... Those who used this mode of salutation fell on their knees and touched the ground with the forehead ..., and this honor was not only shown to superiors, such as kings and princes, 2 Sam. 9:8; but also to equals; Gen. 23:7.”

    The act described by proskuneo (or shachah) was of bowing or kneeling, and it generally indicated an act of respect and a display of one’s willingness to submit to or serve another person who occupied a superior position, regardless of his nature (somewhat similar to a salute in the military today). It was done, of course, in its very highest sense to God alone, but it was also done, in a lower sense of the same word, to kings, angels, prophets, etc. That is why proskuneo is translated “prostrated himself before” at Matt. 18:26 NASB, even though the KJV uses “worship” there.

    Notice how other trinitarian translations render that verse (RSV and NIV for example) where a servant “worships” [proskuneo] his master. And that is why, in the account of the man blind from birth whom Jesus healed, we see that man giving proskuneo to Jesus at John 9:38. The ASV, in a footnote for John 9:38, says,

    “The Greek word [proskuneo] denotes an act of reverence, whether paid to a creature, as here [Jesus], or to the Creator.”

    At Rev. 3:9 Jesus shows the position of authority he will give to some of his human followers when he says he will make people “worship before thy feet.” - KJV. The word used there is proskuneo! The ASV again adds this footnote: “The Greek word [proskuneo] denotes an act of reverence whether paid to a creature, or the Creator.”

    We can see the same thing at Is. 45:14. Here God, speaking to his faithful human followers of the last days, says:
    “and they [the rest of surviving mankind] ... shall fall down [shachah - ‘worship’] unto thee, they shall make supplication [palal - ‘pray’: see The Jerusalem Bible and AT] unto thee, saying, Surely God is in thee [see IN/WITH study]; and there is none else.” - KJV, ASV. - cf. Is. 49:23.
     
  8. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Well-Known Member

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    tigger2 Christians have ALWAYS worshiped Jesus because Jesus is GOD! You have a lot of opinions the facts remain... Scriptures tell you "Jesus is God!"

    John 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and[a] is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

    tigger2 Your argument is NOT with me but with GOD.. The scriptures are His words, He cannot lie!
    The WORD became flesh and lived with us!

    Cry and complain you still cannot put words into God' mouth! God tells you a VIRGIN will give birth and the child will be "God with US"!
    14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel
    God tells you he "GOD" will call him Immanuel!

    tigger2
    You reject "Jesus is God" so does Satan! Nothing changes... Christians have ALWAYS worshiped Jesus because Jesus is GOD!
    Scriptures tell you "Jesus is GOD!"
    The Word was God.. The word became flesh and lived on earth with us!

    tigger2 You are NOT Christian rejecting what Christian teach and have ALWAYS believe!
     
  9. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)

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    I think you are misunderstanding the scriptures. for one thing especially, the word God must be taken in context. Be that as it may, do you believe that Jesus said he was coming again? Also -- I will say that at a certain point of recognition as to who or what Jesus is, Jesus is involved, and the final judgment it is yet to come.
     
  10. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)

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    What do you think the following means? (King James Version) Hebrews 8:10 - "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:" It says that God said he will be to the Israelites "A God". A God? That's what it says...
     
  11. JerryMyers

    JerryMyers Active Member

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    You are SO delusional that when people said you are wrong, you turn around and said they are wrong. Heck, you even refused to accept the definition of ‘worship’ in the NT by the KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon which is obviously managed by Christians, and you held on to your faulty understanding of ‘worship’ - do you think you are better than the Christian folks behind the KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon???

    Your belief that Jesus is God has now evolved into a cult and you are displaying all the signs of a cult follower! Like a cult follower, you are tailor-fitting your false belief into the words of Jesus.

    In Matt. 4:8-10, because Satan tried to tempt Jesus with all the wealth of the world on the condition that Jesus would bow down and worship him (Satan), Jesus told Satan to worship and serve only God – that alone should tell you Jesus is NOT God, that is, if you ONLY have used your faculty of intelligence which God gave you, but you refused to use it and like a cult follower, you stick to your NONSENSE belief that Jesus is God !!

    Just because someone is called ‘God with us’ does not mean that someone is God! Abraham’s firstborn son is named Ishmael which means ‘God Hears’ – does that mean Ishmael is God who hears???!
    Jerusalem is also called ‘The Lord our Righteous Savior’ (Jeremiah 33:16) - does that mean Jerusalem is God ???!

    As I said before, the more you try to tailor-fit your NONSENSE belief that Jesus is God, the more you exposed your faulty logic and rationale!!!

    The fact that Jesus DID NOT correct Thomas tells us Jesus understood Thomas ‘My Lord and my God!’ is NOT an acknowledgement by Thomas of him as God, but it is an expression of shock and disbelief of seeing him alive and unharmed.

    Would you correct anyone who said to you, “My Dogknox20 and my God!” ?? Obviously you won’t as you are not God and you would not have taken that phrase as an acknowledgement that you are God… and for the same reason, Jesus did not correct Thomas. Moreover, it would be illogical to think Thomas would believe Jesus is God when NONE of the other disciples who have seen Jesus (before Thomas did) believe Jesus is God!!

    ..And where does it said, in your whole Bible, Thomas is a Christian???!! Jesus himself would not know what is a ‘Christian’!! Again, you are exposing yourself as someone who will say anything to tailor-fit your NONSENSE belief that Jesus is God into the scripture!!

    The question you should ask yourself what does Jesus mean by the words ‘Because you have seen me, you have believed’? Believe in what?? Believe in your NONSENSE that Jesus is God??!! The other disciples have also seen Jesus alive before Thomas, and obviously they also have believed BUT there’s not a single verse in those passages to even suggest they all believed Jesus is God!!!

    Do you disagree??? Then, show me where, in your whole Bible, did Jesus ever say or even imply, ‘if you have seen me, you have believed I am God!!’ Fact is, you cannot because your NONSENSE belief that Jesus is God came from the words of other people!!

    It seems you are the one who’s been following false teachers and that’s why you cannot even back up your NONSENSE belief with the words of God Almighty and/or His prophet, Jesus!

    The fact is Jesus knew that there will be Christians who worship him as God (and you are the living proof !) and that’s why Jesus said “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’” (Matt. 7:21-23).

    I suggest you review your NONSENSE belief before Jesus tells you, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
     
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  12. Soapy

    Soapy Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince

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    Jesus said: ‘No one has seen God except him who was sent by God: the son of man’

    So Jesus is saying that only he has ‘seen God’ yet Trinitarians claim Thomas saw God….

    So was Jesus … or Thomas… lying? Or did the trinitarian translators alter the scriptures to make it (I don’t know how) seem that Thomas said: ‘My Lord and MY GOD’.

    Obviously, ‘MY GOD’ does not even begin to imply ‘THE GOD’: ALMIGHTY GOD: YHWH… but that’s how desperate trinity gets in trying to prove a false ideology.
     
  13. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    Why do you keep misrepresenting the scriptures and the doctrines you are attacking? I guess it is called setting up strawmen to attack.
    Btw you never did answer why it says that nobody has seen God in the gospels and epistles but that in the OT people saw God.
     
  14. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Well-Known Member

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    Christians believe and teach "Jesus is God"! Christians worship Jesus they have always worshiped Jesus!
    YoursTrue Nut-In about ME understanding scriptures is involved in this, Christians believe and teach "Jesus is God"! It is an HISTORICAL FACT... Christians worship Jesus they have always worshiped Jesus!

    YoursTrue This is also an historical FACT: The JWs came along 1800 years AFTER Christians! The JWs came all of these many years after Jesus claiming; Jesus is NOT God! FACT: The scriptures are clear "Anti-Christs will come attacking Christian belief!
     
  15. Soapy

    Soapy Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince

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    Why do you keep saying I don’t answer questions you ask me…. What questions????

    And in any case there is no need to answer as to why no one has seen God … the scriptures says so clearly even from Jesus’ own mouth… so why do you ask me? Because you don’t know your scriptures…. That is why! If you knew your scriptures you wouldn’t be asking me to prove to you something that is clear and obvious… or maybe you just like saying that I’m not answering you to make yourself look like you asked me something I cannot answer ... tut… tut… tut!!!
    • “No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.”
    • “And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form,”
    • “No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.”
    • “No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.”
    • “No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.”
    In the O.T. what people saw and heard were Angel representatives of God. God never leaves his Heavenly throne. He sends his Holy Spirit or holy angels (messengers) in his name. Then he sent the prophets… then he sent his Son… then finally he sent his Holy Spirit…
    How do you claim I didn’t answer you as to seeing God when there are so many verses which are clear answers …

    God is Spirit: No man can see Spirit!!

    God is Spirit: “Touch me, Thomas, see that I am NOT SPIRIT, since Spirit does not have flesh and blood as I have!!”

    And you say Jesus lied to Thomas because Jesus WAS GOD…????
     
  16. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)

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    You continue misunderstanding, and you're right in the sense that God is "a" God, and Jesus is not "the" God that his Father is. If two persons are said to be one, it doesn't mean they are literally one person. Sorry you don't understand that. You are probably aware of the scripture at Matthew 28, after Jesus' resurrection: "Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me." Given to him. G-i-v-e-n to him.
    As it goes, John 1:1 says that the "Word" was God (King James and other versions) and was with God. That's two. Not one. Or three. at John 1:1. Two. God the Word and the God that the Word was with. Sorry about that, but you're wrong. We can discuss what the words 'god' and 'worship' really mean. As far as definitions of worship or God go, that may be my next endeavor with you. :) Have a good night.
     
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  17. Soapy

    Soapy Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince

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    The word was FROM GOD…. It is not a person.

    And you are right that the definition of ‘God’ and the meaning of ‘word of God’ must be looked at deeply.

    There are already posts in the forum explicitly about these topics but since Trinitarians do not want to know the truth, those posts have ‘gone to seed’!

    Good luck trying to get a definition of ‘God’. I have tried so many times and responders always turn it into a farce … for obvious reasons!

    Let me give you a hint of the truth:
    • ‘God’ is a TITLE… a title of an entity that is the greatest in a context. In scriptures, this context is the the worshipped deity of the Jews - the Israelite nation and those that come out of it by Jesus (Christians)
    • ‘God’ is an adjective… an adjective associated with every superlative:
      • Greatest (mentioned above)
      • Most High
      • Ruler/Ruling
      • Most Glorious
      • Most Majestic
      • Monumental
      • All Powerful
      • Above all else
    Thus it can be said:
    • ‘A judge is GOD in/of his courtroom’
    • ‘A Principal is God in/of his school’
    • ‘YHWH is GOD of the Jews’
    • ‘A chess grandmaster is GOD of his game’
    • ‘A lion is GOD of the animals in a jungle’ (though lions don’t actually live in a jungle… it’s just a saying!)
    • ‘The word of the deity of the Jews was the greatest word uttered by that deity: the word of the deity (God) was GOD of all spoken words:
      • “Let there be light”
      • Redemption from the sin of Adam will come from “The Seed of a woman” … (The Holy Spirit of YHWH)(Genesis 3:15Luke 1:30-35)
    It is ridiculous to say that ‘God was with God and the God that was with God was that same God that was with him (God)’. It’s a nonsense word twister that only Trinitarians cannot see as being so! Of course they will deny that that is what they are saying … of course… ‘God was with God and was God’… oh boy!!!! And they say this is taught to them by GOD’s Holy Spirit??
     
    #1377 Soapy, Sep 20, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2021
  18. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    Ex 24:10 and they saw the God of Israel. Under His feet was a work like a pavement made of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself. 11But God did not lay His hand on the nobles of Israel; they saw Him, and they ate and drank.

    Again you did not answer. I guess you either do not know the scriptures or cannot answer the question.

    The problem is that you do not know who Jesus is.
    Jesus did not lie to Thomas. Jesus is the Son of God and became a man with a body and rose again with a body.
    As the pre human Son He had one nature, God nature.
    As the human and resurrected Son He has 2 natures, that of God and of a servant. (That is shown in Phil 2)
    Thomas knew what Jesus had been teaching about Himself, that He is the Son of God and equal to His God and Father and is in His Father and His Father is in Him.
    Thomas as a Jew in those days does not make up a 20th century exclamation of surprise (My Lord and My God) when that would be blasphemy in those days.
    You could say that Thomas we calling Jesus "My Lord" and calling the Father in Jesus "My God".
    But Thomas was addressing Jesus and calling Him "My Lord and my God".
     
  19. Soapy

    Soapy Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince

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    ‘My God’… does not mean ‘THE GOD’.

    In any case you didn’t answer anything I asked you. Why? Because you cannot…. Oh dear … is trinity so bad that it’s only defence is to evade answering questions set to it…. ? Guess so… no! Know so!

    I asked you what did the other ten apostles do while Thomas was ‘claiming to be seeing God’?

    And if they had seen God standing in front of them. ….. aarrgghhh… if they had seen ALMIGHTY GOD, a SPIRIT (‘I am not a Spirit’) standing in front of them … how did they go back to their days job a short time later?

    And what about the 400 Jesus showed himself to after being raised up… Did they see Almighty God who resides in Heaven in powerful light that no man’s eyes can penetrate?

    You ‘bring God down to earth and raise man up to heaven’…. Not good… not good at all!!!
     
  20. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    The Greek says, "The Lord of me and the God of me".

    The other apostles already knew what Thomas had said. It was Thomas who was the doubting one and now knew that Jesus was whom He had been telling them He was.
    They could have been bored or running short of money and so went back to work. Who knows.

    The 500 saw the resurrected Jesus. They did not know He was God.
    Again you refuse to answer the question about the Israelite elders seeing God.
    The Father is an invisible spirit but the Israelite elders saw God. Did they see the Father, no, so who did they see if it was someone who was God?
     
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