Watchtower Governing Body: Are They The Exclusive Channel For God??

[savagewind]

My sister online?

Yes. There are two ladies on forum who are your JW sisters. Ask them.

 

[Nada]

Seeing he put the train off the track I have a question. That Marlon Brando picture is from The God Father. Isn't it? That is a violent movie. Are YOU still going to meetings?

Yes,it is a picture of Marlon Brando.It is the GodFather.Yes,it is a violent movie.No,I have not gone to a meeting in a while.I went to the memorial and then after that I have not gone.I am not a Jehovahs Witness by the way.I study and try to live up to par.

PS.You, on the other hand, are baptized as a Jehovahs Witness.

 

[savagewind]

Yes,it is a picture of Marlon Brando.It is the GodFather.Yes,it is a violent movie.No,I have not gone to a meeting in a while.I went to the memorial and then after that I have not gone.I am not a Jehovahs Witness by the way.I study and try to live up to par.

PS.You, on the other hand, are baptized as a Jehovahs Witness.

Interesting. Thank you for sharing. You are a promoter of them. Do you get paid? Haha I am kidding.

 

[Nada]

On the side of modesty I would not claim it is or is not a literal number, being it is no where specifically stated to be. So I do not believe it is figurative and i do not believe it is literal. I patiently wait to find out.

What I do believe is that there is a specific small number who as the first fruits of the harvest are elected to serve in Christ under the covenant made to David by Jehovah. That Christ has shared that glory with them as his brothers born directly of the same Father as was the first Adam.

Ok,now I see clearly.Thanks.
(Edit) What I mean by my comment is that I see where you come from now.

 

[savagewind]

I shall not dodge the question. I am not physically disassociated from them, but I am stepping away from those men. Jesus is the important one. He knows I am disassociated. I do not care too much what others think.

 

[Nada]

Interesting. Thank you for sharing. You are a promoter of them. Do you get paid? Haha I am kidding.

How can I betray an organization I am not part of?Look up the word renegade.I am not baptized.You though bash all Witnesses and go to meetings under false pretense.You do not serve Jehovah.You do all you can to distract and sabotage.This has been obvious since the beginning.That is why no other JW's speak to you.I remember you made threads where you were crying saying nobody will answer you or speak to you.You take info from others and use it against them.I had you on ignore for almost 10 months now.I recently started fresh and all of my ignore list are off.It seems I made a terrible mistake acknowledging you again.I see my error and must correct it by placing you back on ignore.I am sorry but I can no longer speak to you.

 

[savagewind]

How can I betray an organization I am not part of?Look up the word renegade.I am not baptized.You though bash all Witnesses and go to meetings under false pretense.You do not serve Jehovah.You do all you can to distract and sabotage.This has been obvious since the beginning.That is why no other JW's speak to you.I remember you made threads where you were crying saying nobody will answer you or speak to you.You take info from others and use it against them.I had you on ignore for almost 10 months now.I recently started fresh and all f my ignore list are off.It seems I made a terrible mistake acknowledging you again.I see my error and must correct it by placing you back on ignore.I am sorry but I can no longer speak to you.

You are quick! I did look it up. Haha You are right ;(

 

[savagewind]

You are right! I do not serve the god of mischief. Observant you are not.

Oh! If someone has in their eyes a log, it gets in the way of seeing. Fyi.

The god of mischief serves me. I do not know why.

 

[Mountain_Climber]

I shall not dodge the question. I am not physically disassociated from them, but I am stepping away from those men. Jesus is the important one. He knows I am disassociated. I do not care too much what others think.

I only hope for your sake that you are not making a mistake. After all, your baptism with them was a sacred oath to love them with a godly love and bear with them in the trials of this life, knowing we do see the mere outline of things as by the shadow in a mirror and all of us must suffer to grow as that shadow moves forward to becoming a face to face reality.

 

[Nada]

Exactly!

 

[savagewind]

I only hope for your sake that you are not making a mistake. After all, your baptism with them was a sacred oath to love them with a godly love and bear with them in the trials of this life, knowing we do see the mere outline of things as by the shadow in a mirror and all of us must suffer to grow as that shadow moves forward to becoming a face to face reality.

Interesting. I love them. They do not love me.

I had a trial caused by the JWs and they left me alone with it. They did not help me bear it. Not even one of them did.

I love them enough to warn them that their governing body is like those who stood up against Moses. I can look up that scripture but I think it does not matter here.

 

[savagewind]

This will make sense to you only if you view Jesus as the greater Moses. I do.

16 Then Kor′ah+ the son of Iz′har,+ the son of Ko′hath,+ the son of Le′vi,+ got up together with Da′than and A·bi′ram the sons of E·li′ab,+ and On the son of Pe′leth, of the sons of Reu′ben.+2 They rose up against Moses along with 250 Israelite men, chieftains of the assembly, chosen ones of the congregation, prominent men.3 So they gathered together against+ Moses and Aaron and said to them: “We have had enough of you! The whole assembly is holy,+ all of them, and Jehovah is in their midst.+Why, then, should you exalt yourselves above the congregation of Jehovah?”........20 Jehovah now told Moses and Aaron:21 “Separate yourselves from among this group, so that I may exterminate them in an instant.”+22 At this, they fell with their faces to the ground and said: “O God, the God of the spirit of all people,*+ will one man’s sin cause you to become indignant against the entire assembly?”+23 Jehovah then said to Moses:24 “Speak to the assembly and tell them, ‘Get away from around the tents of Kor′ah, Da′than, and A·bi′ram!’”+

 

[Mountain_Climber]

Interesting. I love them. They do not love me.

I had a trial caused by the JWs and they left me alone with it. They did not help me bear it. Not even one of them did.

I love them enough to warn them that their governing body is like those who stood up against Moses. I can look up that scripture but I think it does not matter here.

What a marvelous opportunity to call them to shame through continued and even stronger actions of love.

 

[savagewind]

What a marvelous opportunity to call them to shame through continued and even stronger actions of love.

Thank you. I understand.

 

[katiemygirl]

The key is that individuals within these organizations need to become ready to submit to being shepherded to the fountains of the water of life: Revelation 7:17 "For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes."

So we see that wiping away of their tears process begins as we enter the millennial period of the reign of Christ's kingdom upon this earth with the goal of recreating all things pertaining to the earth. There is where the change for most really begins, but now, beforehand, they have to be made ready to willingly allow that.

Scripturally speaking, there are certain things that any organization in the flesh would have to be doing (and also give up doing) so as to not compromise their allegiance to Jehovah. Their willing allegiance exclusively in Jehovah through Jesus is the ultimate determining factor, for that is the basis upon which God permits them to enter into the millennium set aside for re-creation of this earth and all people and things which will ultimately be left forever upon it..

The truth is that even though we may believe we live God's love and that is what will get us there, we don't really come to know God's love in order to love as he would have us to love until he has our undivided attention. And many things subtly work to prevent us from doing that.

You really didn't answer my question. Are you a politician? Just kidding. Couldn't resist!

 

[katiemygirl]

Yes,that is correct.Thes are two separate groups with different purposes.Both Christians but one is designated for heaven and the others for earth.
Yes,I do believe that it is a literal number.John states that the first group, “those who were sealed,” has a definite number.He goes on to describe a second group,"a great crowd" without a definite number.

This will explain it.

"After the apostle John was told in vision about this group of 144,000 individuals, he was shown another group. John describes this second group as “a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues.” This great crowd refers to those who will survive the coming “great tribulation,” which will destroy the present wicked world.—Revelation 7:9, 14.

Note, however, the contrast that John draws between verses 4 and 9 of Revelation chapter 7. He states that the first group, “those who were sealed,” has a definite number. However, the second group, “a great crowd,” is without a definite number. With that in mind, it is logical to take the number 144,000 to be literal. If the number 144,000 were symbolic and referred to a group that is actually numberless, the force of the contrast between those two verses would be lost. Thus, the context strongly indicates that the number 144,000 must be taken literally."

LIBRARY

Thank you for answering my questions Bible Student. I can't say whether the 144,000 is literal or symbolic. I think a literal or figurative interpretation is possible. I really don't have the answer.

I think I read in one of your posts to Mountain Climber that you also believe the 144,000 are all male virgins? I assume you also believe they are all from the 12 tribes of Israel, and there are literally 12,000 from each tribe? Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[katiemygirl]

I only hope for your sake that you are not making a mistake. After all, your baptism with them was a sacred oath to love them with a godly love and bear with them in the trials of this life, knowing we do see the mere outline of things as by the shadow in a mirror and all of us must suffer to grow as that shadow moves forward to becoming a face to face reality.

I could be wrong, but I thought baptism was into Christ, and not an earthly group. Don't we owe our loyalty to Jesus?

It sounds like you are saying "once a jw, catholic, mormon or baptist, always a jw, catholic, mormon or baptist." Is that what you are saying?

 

[Mountain_Climber]

Thank you for answering my questions Bible Student. I can't say whether the 144,000 is literal or symbolic. I think a literal or figurative interpretation is possible. I really don't have the answer.

I think I read in one of your posts to Mountain Climber that you also believe the 144,000 are all male virgins? I assume you also believe they are all from the 12 tribes of Israel, and there are literally 12,000 from each tribe? Please correct me if I am wrong.

No, they are sexless in Christ. No male, no female, no Jew, no Greek, (no any nationality of men), no slave, and no freeman for all are equal in Christ.

Now I will ask you a question: Does that make them equal with Christ the man, or with the risen glorified Christ, or perhaps both?

 

[Mountain_Climber]

I could be wrong, but I thought baptism was into Christ, and not an earthly group. Don't we owe our loyalty to Jesus?

It sounds like you are saying "once a jw, catholic, mormon or baptist, always a jw, catholic, mormon or baptist." Is that what you are saying?

No, what I am saying is that each one of us have to evaluate whom we gather with to be certain that the base spirit of their desire and approach seeks honestly to submit to that undivided allegiance to the One True God through the wisdom given us in Jesus Christ. For that wisdom is God's wisdom, learned of Christ because by his faithfulness to the Father he was able to possess it.

If we find there are ulterior goals which fight against that undivided allegiance and wisdom as learned through Christ, then we must decide whether the organization ids worthy of our supporting it. In that case we would not stop loving it's members but we may well be justified to remove ourselves into a family that respects that prime directive and love them by word and example from afar.

I almost forgot to explain part of your question.

"I could be wrong, but I thought baptism was into Christ, and not an earthly group. Don't we owe our loyalty to Jesus?"

That is true and more importantly to the Father through Jesus, which means we would not want to adopt doctrines which turn the work Jesus was doing, the work of glorifying his Father's name, into a belief that only glorifies him instead. For that would be dividing our allegiance to God away from God and undoing Jesus' most treasured work.

But we show we love God and Jesus primarily by how we love our brothers, giving all credit to God through Jesus.

There is room there to praise Jesus so long as we do not undo the very work he most treasured, that of glorifying his Father's name in the earth.

 

[katiemygirl]

No, they are sexless in Christ. No male, no female, no Jew, no Greek, (no any nationality of men), no slave, and no freeman for all are equal in Christ.

Now I will ask you a question: Does that make them equal with Christ the man, or with the risen glorified Christ, or perhaps both?

Yes, I agree with you. No male or female in Christ.

Revelation 14 specifically identifies the 144,000 as male virgins. I am interested to know what Bible Student thinks.

I don't know the answer to your question. Do you have some related Scriptures you could share?