Watchtower Governing Body: Are They The Exclusive Channel For God??

[djhwoodwerks]

The very same way you can "know". I am not saying you do not know some things. I am saying just like them you believe you KNOW some things, but you don't. I shall give you an example. You seem to "know" I have nothing of substance to add to this debacle. Am I right?

Lol, I don't understand the comparison you're making between the JW's knowing what they know and me knowing about you.

 

[savagewind]

Lol, I don't understand the comparison you're making between the JW's knowing what they know and me knowing about you.

The KNOWING is the same. Lol. You say they can't know that and I say you can't know that. You believe it. You do not know it. See? You criticize them for something you also do. Not good, I say.

 

[katiemygirl]

="Pegg, post: 4369833, member: 23994"]
When I find it hard to understand something, I think and Pray about it...sometimes for weeks before I can see it clearly.

I would encourage you to mediate on why Jesus addressed some of his disciples as his 'little flock' but others as the 'other sheep' ...what makes these two groups different? Who are they? Do some digging around in the bible because the answers are there.

When you are willing to seek Biblical truths and not buy into every little Watchtower deception, God will give you answers.

Have you ever prayed for Him to help you wipe out mens' teachings and replace them with His? I have. I do it all the time. And you know what? I find that I have ditched many of those old false beliefs. I continue to pray that prayer daily because I know I am not perfect in my thinking, and I have much to learn.

The "little flock" were Jesus' followers, who were JEWS. He said He was sent only to the lost SHEEP of Israel. (Mt. 15:24)

The "other sheep" were Gentiles. Jesus said in John 10:16,

"I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd."

Who are the SHEEP OF THIS PEN Jesus refers to Pegg? Are they not Jews?

No one in ALL of Christendom believes there are two classes of Christians. This is Watchtower doctrine alone. Therefore, the burden of proof lies on the WTS and its followers to show, beyond the shadow of a doubt, using Scripture, and nothing but Scripture, to prove that their doctrine is true.

We believe it is a literal number for a few reasons.

1. In the book of Revelation, John could count the number of those he saw standing with Christ, but then when he saw the Great Crowd he said he could not number them. That is significant and to us indicates that one number is limited while the other is not.

2. Gods purpose for the earth has not changed. He says at Isaiah 45:18 “he formed it to be inhabited.” He obviously wants mankind to continue living here. So someone is going to remain on earth... it wont be angels and it definitely wont be the ones who are judging the 'entire inhabited earth'

3. Those who do go to heaven to be with Christ are said to sit as judges and kings over mankind. So you have to ask, who are they judging? It is not perfect angels they judge...nor do they judge anone in heaven. The logical conclusion is that they are judging the people who will remain on earth to fulfill Gods purpose on earth.

1. How it looks to you and what it indicates to you boils down to your opinion. That doesn't make it fact.

John said he HEARD the number of those who were sealed, 144,000 sealed from every trible of the sons of Israel. John did not say he counted them.

2. Where does it say God wants mankind to inhabit the earth forever?

2 Peter 3:10
10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.

Doesn't sound to me like God planned on having earth inhabited forever.

3. Those of us who are "in Christ" (christians, believers, those who have been born again, those who have been sealed, those who have the indwelling Holy Spirit, those who are saved) are ruling, reigning and judging in His kingdom right now, and at the final judgement, we will judge all men and angels because we are "in Christ." We are united with Him. We are one with Christ. See 1 Cor. 6:1-11.

The covenant Jesus made with his Apostles was called the 'new' covenant and is different to the one Jehovah made with Jesus.
Jesus said to his apostles: Luke 22: 28 “However, you are the ones who have stuck with me+ in my trials;+29 and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom,+30 so that you may eat and drink at my table in my Kingdom,+ and sit on thrones+ to judge the 12 tribes of Israel.
Do you see how Jesus makes his own covenant with his apostles? 'I make a covenant with you JUST AS my Father made a Covenant with me'
This is Jesus making a covenant with his apostles for a seat in his kingdom.
It is not the covenant that God made with Jesus to be the King of the kingdom, but a secondary covenant which Christ made with his apostles to sit as judges with him

Pegg, this is why so many condemn the NWT. It is deceitful in its translation tactics repeatedly.

When Jesus promised the kingdom to his faithful disciples, he did not use the word "covenant.

That the word "covenant" (διαθήκη, di·a·the′ke) does not appear at Luke 22:29 is acknowledged in the New World Translation Reference Bible (Rbi8). It omits the Scripture from the 33 places where the word covenant does appear in the Greek Scriptures. Please see what it says in the Appendix, page 1584. I will post more about this if need be.

Since Jesus did not use the word, neither did he make a "covenant for a kingdom" with his apostles.

So what did Jesus tell them? In view of his impending arrest and death, Jesus assured his disciples that they had not followed him in vain, but they were sure of receiving the kingdom, just as he had promised them on at least two earlier occasions, such as when he had told them: "Have no fear, little flock, because your Father has approved of giving you the kingdom." (Luke 12:32; Matt. 19:28)

That is why other Translations render Luke 22:29 as saying: "and I assign (give; grant; appoint; bestow) to you, as my Father assigned to me, a kingdom." (ESV
the word for "assign" being dia·ti'the·mi (διατίθεμαι), meaning "to dispose" as in a will.

Dishonesty and deception in the NWT will NEVER lead to the truth! Open your eyes, my friend.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

The KNOWING is the same. Lol. You say they can't know that and I say you can't know that. You believe it. You do not know it. See? You criticize them for something you also do. Not good, I say.

Ok, explain how they can "KNOW" something to be true when the GB uses Proverbs 4:18 as an excuse to change what they teach? They don't add to a present truth, their truth completely changes. Their "LIGHT OF TRUTH" can change at any moment. So, what they say they "KNOW" today could be replaced tomorrow with "NEW LIGHT" and make what they say they "KNOW" today obsolete. What I "KNOW" about the Bible, what I believe the Bible says, never changes, but I do learn "NEW" things all the time.

 

[savagewind]

Ok, explain how they can "KNOW" something to be true when the GB uses Proverbs 4:18 as an excuse to change what they teach? They don't add to a present truth, their truth completely changes. Their "LIGHT OF TRUTH" can change at any moment. So, what they say they "KNOW" today could be replaced tomorrow with "NEW LIGHT" and make what they say they "KNOW" today obsolete. What I "KNOW" about the Bible, what I believe the Bible says, never changes, but I do learn "NEW" things all the time.

I know. Please do not waste time with me. I agree with you.
I was stating a fact from the human perspective. I am sorry. Please just ignore that woman behind the curtain just like you have been doing. Carry on!

 

[djhwoodwerks]

I know. Please do not waste time with me. I agree with you.

I don't see it as wasting time!

 

[savagewind]

I don't see it as wasting time!

Good. Thank you.

 

[JesusBeliever]

To our detractors....

Hi there, this was such a well written and heartfelt post with so much accuracy and precision that I was almost tempted to pass it by and leave you in peace, preferring not to be identified as a "Detractor" of JWs. But I felt drawn back to your post as I was reminded of my experience with JWs when I was a mere babe in Christ who had no knowledge of scripture except a very new faith in the Lord Jesus, who had saved me from a very real living hell after I called on His Name.

I'll tell ya straight, these well-meaning JW people almost destroyed my faith, throwing me into spiritual turmoil and tribulation. Having felt I had only just escaped the darkness of my life into His glorious light, the stumbling block they placed in my way saw me being thrown into outer darkness again. And how did they accomplish this? By criticising my simple faith and trust in Jesus, sowing doubt in my heart with their intellectual arguements and perverted Bible Version. The Lord had tried to warn me in a dream to stop meeting with the couple, but they seemed like such sincere and nice people and I wanted them to accept me. And I paid dearly for my disobedience, the Lord giving me another dream in which I was being accepted by them but found myself praying these words in the dream, that I later found in Scripture:

[VERSE=Psalms 23:4,ASV]Yea, thou I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil; for thou art with me; Thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me.[/VERSE]

I woke up crying and scared to even face the couple again, but the Lord gave me strength to face them one last time and end the meetings.

For all that seems right about the JW's, their name says it all. They are Jehovah's Witnesses, not Jesus' Witnesses. Why don't they heed the words of the Apostle John who said:

[VERSE=1 John 2:23,ASV]Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that confesseth the Son hath the Father also.[/VERSE]

Or the words of the Apostle Paul who said:

[VERSE=Romans 3:26,ASV]for the showing, [I say], of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus.[/VERSE]

Or the words of Our Lord Himself who said:

[VERSE=John 10:27,ASV]My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:[/VERSE]

I trust that the Lord Jesus will have mercy on many of the JW's who do what they do, ignorant of the damage they cause to the work of Christ.

[VERSE=Romans 8:35-39,ASV][VERSENUM]35[/VERSENUM] Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

[VERSENUM]36[/VERSENUM] Even as it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

[VERSENUM]37[/VERSENUM] Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

[VERSENUM]38[/VERSENUM] For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, [VERSENUM]39[/VERSENUM] nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.[/VERSE]

A question for all Jehovah's witnesses. Who did Jesus say would raise up the temple of His body?

[VERSE=John 2:19-21,ASV][VERSENUM]19[/VERSENUM] Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

[VERSENUM]20[/VERSENUM] The Jews therefore said, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou raise it up in three days?

[VERSENUM]21[/VERSENUM] But he spake of the temple of his body.[/VERSE]

[VERSE=Acts Of The Apostles 4:10-12,ASV][VERSENUM]10[/VERSENUM] be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, [even] in him doth this man stand here before you whole.

[VERSENUM]11[/VERSENUM] He is the stone which was set at nought of you the builders, which was made the head of the corner.

[VERSENUM]12[/VERSENUM] And in none other is there salvation: for neither is there any other name under heaven, that is given among men, wherein we must be saved.[/VERSE]

[VERSE=Isaiah 59:16-17,ASV][VERSENUM]16[/VERSENUM] And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his own arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it upheld him.

[VERSENUM]17[/VERSENUM] And he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and a helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a mantle.[/VERSE]

 

[katiemygirl]

Ok, explain how they can "KNOW" something to be true when the GB uses Proverbs 4:18 as an excuse to change what they teach? They don't add to a present truth, their truth completely changes. Their "LIGHT OF TRUTH" can change at any moment. So, what they say they "KNOW" today could be replaced tomorrow with "NEW LIGHT" and make what they say they "KNOW" today obsolete. What I "KNOW" about the Bible, what I believe the Bible says, never changes, but I do learn "NEW" things all the time.

Not only does it make yesterday's truth obsolete, it makes it a LIE.

That is not light getting brighter. It is light changing. It is different light. Big difference.

 

[katiemygirl]

Hi there, this was such a well written and heartfelt post with so much accuracy and precision that I was almost tempted to pass it by and leave you in peace, preferring not to be identified as a "Detractor" of JWs. But I felt drawn back to your post as I was reminded of my experience with JWs when I was a mere babe in Christ who had no knowledge of scripture except a very new faith in the Lord Jesus, who had saved me from a very real living hell after I called on His Name.

I'll tell ya straight, these well-meaning JW people almost destroyed my faith, throwing me into spiritual turmoil and tribulation. Having felt I had only just escaped the darkness of my life into His glorious light, the stumbling block they placed in my way saw me being thrown into outer darkness again. And how did they accomplish this? By criticising my simple faith and trust in Jesus, sowing doubt in my heart with their intellectual arguements and perverted Bible Version. The Lord had tried to warn me in a dream to stop meeting with the couple, but they seemed like such sincere and nice people and I wanted them to accept me. And I paid dearly for my disobedience, the Lord giving me another dream in which I was being accepted by them but found myself praying these words in the dream, that I later found in Scripture:

[VERSE=Psalms 23:4,ASV]Yea, thou I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil; for thou art with me; Thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me.[/VERSE]

I woke up crying and scared to even face the couple again, but the Lord gave me strength to face them one last time and end the meetings.

For all that seems right about the JW's, their name says it all. They are Jehovah's Witnesses, not Jesus' Witnesses. Why don't they heed the words of the Apostle John who said:

[VERSE=1 John 2:23,ASV]Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that confesseth the Son hath the Father also.[/VERSE]

Or the words of the Apostle Paul who said:

[VERSE=Romans 3:26,ASV]for the showing, [I say], of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus.[/VERSE]

Or the words of Our Lord Himself who said:

[VERSE=John 10:27,ASV]My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:[/VERSE]

I trust that the Lord Jesus will have mercy on many of the JW's who do what they do, ignorant of the damage they cause to the work of Christ.

[VERSE=Romans 8:35-39,ASV][VERSENUM]35[/VERSENUM] Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

[VERSENUM]36[/VERSENUM] Even as it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

[VERSENUM]37[/VERSENUM] Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

[VERSENUM]38[/VERSENUM] For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, [VERSENUM]39[/VERSENUM] nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.[/VERSE]

A question for all Jehovah's witnesses. Who did Jesus say would raise up the temple of His body?

[VERSE=John 2:19-21,ASV][VERSENUM]19[/VERSENUM] Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

[VERSENUM]20[/VERSENUM] The Jews therefore said, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou raise it up in three days?

[VERSENUM]21[/VERSENUM] But he spake of the temple of his body.[/VERSE]

[VERSE=Acts Of The Apostles 4:10-12,ASV][VERSENUM]10[/VERSENUM] be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, [even] in him doth this man stand here before you whole.

[VERSENUM]11[/VERSENUM] He is the stone which was set at nought of you the builders, which was made the head of the corner.

[VERSENUM]12[/VERSENUM] And in none other is there salvation: for neither is there any other name under heaven, that is given among men, wherein we must be saved.[/VERSE]

[VERSE=Isaiah 59:16-17,ASV][VERSENUM]16[/VERSENUM] And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his own arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it upheld him.

[VERSENUM]17[/VERSENUM] And he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and a helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a mantle.[/VERSE]

I don't know whose post you were referring to, but I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your post. It was so encouraging and uplifting to me.

I believe with all my heart that if someone is seeking God's truth, he/she will find it, whether it come by a dream, or that small inner voice we hear inside us. God knew your heart. He saw your desire for truth, and He gave it to you.

May God continue to bless you with all blessings, both spiritual and physical.

Thank you again. Your post made my day.

Katie

 

[Katzpur]

You raise a good point Katzpur. But isnt it true that even with governments, we still have a degree of Chaos?

Can you imagine what it must be like to live in Iraq or Syria or Egypt at the moment? Those countries have governments, and yet chaos reigns.

What does it tell you about human government?

Of course there are some horrible governments, because there are some horrible people. I still cannot fathom a world with no governments, no laws, no way to protect the country's citizens, no services or benefits for anyone. Eventually, of course, such a place will exist, but meanwhile, people with varying beliefs and standards have to co-exist and I see no way for that to happen except through human cooperation, which ultimately involves the use of governments. Sorry, Pegg, but I just can't go along with the idea that this is something God doesn't want. This is something on which we will never agree.

 

[katiemygirl]

Of course there are some horrible governments, because there are some horrible people. I still cannot fathom a world with no governments, no laws, no way to protect the country's citizens, no services or benefits for anyone. Eventually, of course, such a place will exist, but meanwhile, people with varying beliefs and standards have to co-exist and I see no way for that to happen except through human cooperation, which ultimately involves the use of governments. Sorry, Pegg, but I just can't go along with the idea that this is something God doesn't want. This is something on which we will never agree.

We're told to pray for our leaders. We also know that God appoints leaders over kingdoms to carry out His purposes.

You are absolutely correct to include policemen, firemen, and other such entities in our government. Without them, what would our world be like?

Without government, , there would be anarchy. Surely, anarchy was never part of God's plan.

I understand and respect anyone's right to not take up arms against enemies, but refusing to vote is another story.

Our votes can and do change society. I cannot imagine not voting. Many fought and died for me to have that privilege.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

How will he have a hand in what goes on in heaven if he his made into a human again?

Phi 3:19-21 (ESVST) 20 But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.

Where oh where do they get the things they say? They don't realize what they are saying!

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Your personal opinion of JW's is really no concern of mine. Your truth is pitted against my truth in a public forum. And there is nothing in the rules that says we have to like each other.
You got your nose out of joint over something I said quite some time ago and your comments to me have been sarcastic ever since. What is that old saying?...if you can't stand the heat...?
Time to let it go, don't you think?

Some JW's remind me of a spoiled child. They always blame others for everything, nothing is ever their fault, and they always act perfectly!

 

[kjw47]

So you are saying that Jesus does not really exist with two people gathered in his name like the Bible says. Matthew 18:20

You are really good at trying to twist everything someone says. He does gather with those who know the real Jesus, but he doesn't reveal truths through just anyone.

 

[kjw47]

Jesus is with two or more gathered in his name Matthew 18:20 and he made a promise to be with us as we disciple the nations. Matthew 28:20 What does he do when he is present with believers?

You should ask him.

 

[savagewind]

You are really good at trying to twist everything someone says. He does gather with those who know the real Jesus, but he doesn't reveal truths through just anyone.

Not through. We are talking about him revealing truths TO someone. I agree with you that he does not reveal truths through just anyone.

Please provide the reason Jesus does not reveal truths to just anyone.

 

[kjw47]

And what does not getting paid have to do with it?

Gods word says to give his word free because we received it free.

 

[savagewind]

You should ask him.

He teaches them. But you say he does not teach them. Do I understand you correctly?

 

[kjw47]

How did the GB become anointed. Who picked them?

They are the faithful and discreet slave who give food( spiritual) at the proper time. everyone who knows this teaching knows Jesus picked them.