Watchmaker or Designer

[starlite]

I've noticed on this forum there are those who disagree with the watchmaker line of reasoning on the creation of the earth and the universe. Well, here's another way of realizing that God is a superb designer and organizer. In the United States approximately 400 loads of laundry per household are done in a year. There are about 114 million households. This comes to 45 billion loads total. So....you open the door of the dryer in just one household....what are the chances that the laundry is folded, sorted by color and organized for each family member? In my opinion this illustrates that our universe and all things in it were created by a supreme designer....GOD.

 

[Skwim]

Pure and simple, analogies are not arguments. They are illustrations of an argument, and unless one is prepared to make the argument, whatever that may be, you fail to convince. So, leave your analogies at home and make your argument. We await.

 

[LuisDantas]

I've noticed on this forum there are those who disagree with the watchmaker line of reasoning on the creation of the earth and the universe. Well, here's another way of realizing that God is a superb designer and organizer. In the United States approximately 400 loads of laundry per household are done in a year. There are about 114 million households. This comes to 45 billion loads total. So....you open the door of the dryer in just one household....what are the chances that the laundry is folded, sorted by color and organized for each family member? In my opinion this illustrates that our universe and all things in it were created by a supreme designer....GOD.

That is indeed not an argument. All you are doing is saying that you perceive things in that specific way.

It does not follow that it is a reasonable comparison. And in fact, I would describe it as an artifact of your perception.

You might well feel differently if you had certain kinds of specific knowledge, or perhaps even if you simply had learned differently.

The bottom line is, I don't think such an argument will convince anyone that is not already convinced.

 

[Alceste]

I've noticed on this forum there are those who disagree with the watchmaker line of reasoning on the creation of the earth and the universe. Well, here's another way of realizing that God is a superb designer and organizer. In the United States approximately 400 loads of laundry per household are done in a year. There are about 114 million households. This comes to 45 billion loads total. So....you open the door of the dryer in just one household....what are the chances that the laundry is folded, sorted by color and organized for each family member? In my opinion this illustrates that our universe and all things in it were created by a supreme designer....GOD.

If you understand the basics of how the drier works, you know exactly what to expect when you open it: dry clothes. Not pressed and folded clothes.

So it is with evolution. We are not perfect - we are not dried, pressed, folded laundry. We're a rumpled, disorganized mess, like everything else that's been through the drier of evolution.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Now I would be impressed if the laundry was folded and pressed out of the dryer. That proves there is no god.

 

[starlite]

Seems there are others who see things from my perspective.....

Isaac Newton
born
in Woolsthorpe-by-Colsterworth, England, The United Kingdom
January 04, 1643

died
March 31, 1727

gender
male

website
http://www.newtonproject.sussex.ac.uk/prism.php...

genre
Science, Religion & Spirituality, Nonfiction

influences
Michael Maier, Henry More

Sir Isaac Newton, FRS , was an English physicist, mathematician, astronomer, natural philosopher, alchemist and theologian. His Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica, published in 1687, is considered to be the most influential book in the history of science. In this work, Newton described universal gravitation and the three laws of motion, laying the groundwork for classical mechanics, which dominated the scientific view of the physical universe for the next three centuries and is the basis for modern engineering. Newton showed that the motions of objects on Earth and of celestial bodies are governed by the same set of natural laws by demonstrating the consistency between Kepler's laws of planetary motion and his theory of gravitation, thus removing the last doubts about heliocentrism and advancing the scientific revolution.

“Philosophers were revolutionary mathematicians or scientists in addition to being philosophers. When they attempted to create linguistic and conceptual explanations of the world, they were also the first people to have understood certain aspects of the workings of the universe.

The best example of this might be Isaac Newton, who was the first to offer a comprehensive mathematical explanation of the planetary orbits in our solar system. When he looked at the solar system, he was probably the first to understand the true complexity of the physics involved, and it was dazzling.

Here is what he wrote in the Principia, in 1687:

I do not think it explicable by mere natural causes but am forced to ascribe it to ye counsel and contrivance of a voluntary agent.' A month later he wrote to Bentley again: 'Gravity may put ye planets into motion but without ye divine power it could never put them into such a Circulating motion as they have about ye Sun, and therefore, for this as well as other reasons, I am compelled to ascribe ye frame of this Systeme to an intelligent Agent.' If, for example, the earth revolved on its axis at only one hundred miles per hour instead of one thousand miles per hour, night would ten times longer and the world would be too cold to sustain life; during the long day, the heat would shrivel all the vegetation. The Being which had contrived all this so perfectly had to be a supremely intelligent Mechanick.​

It's beautiful, it all runs on its own with marvelous symmetry -- it must have been designed by something or someone Intelligent.”

 

[Athan]

Pure and simple, analogies are not arguments. They are illustrations of an argument, and unless one is prepared to make the argument, whatever that may be, you fail to convince. So, leave your analogies at home and make your argument. We await.

I don't think God is interested in providing entertainment for the masses. I mean, really. If He did choose to manifest himself to you, do you really think you'd have a life changing experience and convert? Possibly, but I doubt it. What I believe would happen, is you'd eventually doubt what you saw and jump right back on the wagon with the rest of the anti-theists. No, the only way anyone is going to become convinced is if he seeks out God, first. And I'm not talking just giving it a lick and a promise, either.

 

[ArtieE]

If, for example, the earth revolved on its axis at only one hundred miles per hour instead of one thousand miles per hour, night would ten times longer and the world would be too cold to sustain life; during the long day, the heat would shrivel all the vegetation. The Being which had contrived all this so perfectly had to be a supremely intelligent Mechanick.[/INDENT]It's beautiful, it all runs on its own with marvelous symmetry -- it must have been designed by something or someone Intelligent.”

So before the Big Bang this Being sat down and thought to himself: I am going to set off a Big Bang and I will make sure I start it in such a way that 15 billion years later one planet will revolve around its axis at one thousand miles per hour so that it can sustain something called life?

 

[starlite]

There was no Big Bang...in His infinite wisdom, God planned and set everything into motion

 

[LuisDantas]

Seems there are others who see things from my perspective.....

Yes, you are hardly the only theist in existence.

 

[LuisDantas]

I don't think God is interested in providing entertainment for the masses. I mean, really. If He did choose to manifest himself to you, do you really think you'd have a life changing experience and convert? Possibly, but I doubt it. What I believe would happen, is you'd eventually doubt what you saw and jump right back on the wagon with the rest of the anti-theists. No, the only way anyone is going to become convinced is if he seeks out God, first. And I'm not talking just giving it a lick and a promise, either.

While I do agree, isn't that in and of itself evidence that if there is a God he does not particularly mind whether we believe in his existence or not?

 

[McBell]

I've noticed on this forum there are those who disagree with the watchmaker line of reasoning on the creation of the earth and the universe. Well, here's another way of realizing that God is a superb designer and organizer. In the United States approximately 400 loads of laundry per household are done in a year. There are about 114 million households. This comes to 45 billion loads total. So....you open the door of the dryer in just one household....what are the chances that the laundry is folded, sorted by color and organized for each family member? In my opinion this illustrates that our universe and all things in it were created by a supreme designer....GOD.

One wonders why you feel the need to convince yourself of something you already believe...

 

[LuisDantas]

There was no Big Bang...in His infinite wisdom, God planned and set everything into motion

And you just know that it was not by way of a Big Bang?

How did you reach that conclusion?

 

[Athan]

While I do agree, isn't that in and of itself evidence that if there is a God he does not particularly mind whether we believe in his existence or not?

I'm sure He would love to have all of His children come back to Him, but that isn't going to happen. Free agency has made that impossible. What He is interested in, is bringing back those who are interested in Him.

 

[Revoltingest]

I've noticed on this forum there are those who disagree with the watchmaker line of reasoning on the creation of the earth and the universe. Well, here's another way of realizing that God is a superb designer and organizer. In the United States approximately 400 loads of laundry per household are done in a year. There are about 114 million households. This comes to 45 billion loads total. So....you open the door of the dryer in just one household....what are the chances that the laundry is folded, sorted by color and organized for each family member? In my opinion this illustrates that our universe and all things in it were created by a supreme designer....GOD.

It helps to examine various aspects of "watchmaking" separately.
Which can be explained by a physical process....biogenesis, intelligence, evolution, cosmology, physical laws?
From what I see, only the last item doesn't have an explainable origin. The laws just are.

 

[Draka]

There was no Big Bang...in His infinite wisdom, God planned and set everything into motion

Now how on Earth do you know that, "in His infinite wisdom" the plan didn't include setting everything into motion with the Big Bang? You know. Like laying out a complex layout of dominoes and other tricks and traps and so on and then going back and just flipping that very first domino? Hmmmm?

 

[Revoltingest]

There was no Big Bang...in His infinite wisdom, God planned and set everything into motion

Some interesting reading.....
Georges Lemaître - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Big Bang Theory was the invention of a priest (moonlighting as a physics prof) to explain how God set things "into motion" using physics.

 

[LuisDantas]

I'm sure He would love to have all of His children come back to Him, but that isn't going to happen. Free agency has made that impossible. What He is interested in, is bringing back those who are interested in Him.

If you say so. I can't claim to understand that, though.

 

[Skwim]

Seems there are others who see things from my perspective.....

Isaac Newton
born
in Woolsthorpe-by-Colsterworth, England, The United Kingdom
January 04, 1643 . . . .

Argument from authority is no less fallacious than argument by analogy. Both would get you kicked out of Logic 101.

Pure and simple, analogies are not arguments. They are illustrations of an argument, and unless one is prepared to make the argument, whatever that may be, you fail to convince. So, leave your analogies at home and make your argument. We await.

I don't think God is interested in providing entertainment for the masses. I mean, really. If He did choose to manifest himself to you, do you really think you'd have a life changing experience and convert? Possibly, but I doubt it. What I believe would happen, is you'd eventually doubt what you saw and jump right back on the wagon with the rest of the anti-theists. No, the only way anyone is going to become convinced is if he seeks out God, first. And I'm not talking just giving it a lick and a promise, either.

And this relates to starlite's OP in what way?

 

[HonestJoe]

In my opinion this illustrates that our universe and all things in it were created by a supreme designer....GOD.

So what if it did? What would you expect us to do with this conclusion?

Also, why (your) God and not, for example, the magical space pixies?