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Was the Tanakh falsified?

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
Yes... but... the mezzuzah and the tefillin are a very specific cultural practice. I am wondering if there was ever any other culture which did anything even **remotely** similar. I propose that those were not "borrowed" as Sooda ( hopefully unintentionally ) implied.

Also, I'm glad you replied.

I'm curious about the calendar.

What do the letters look like? Do you have pictures?

Not a letter, a number.

year 2020 gregorian is 5781 jewish

ok so... that makes 3781 hmmmm I guess that estimates from Adam
ok i was wrong that was Maimamedes estimate of creation

he Hebrew year count starts in year 3761 BCE, which the 12th-century Jewishphilosopher Maimonides established as the biblical date of Creation. Years in the Jewish calendar are designated AM to identify them as part of the Anno Mundi epoch, indicating the age of the world according to the Bible.

Prior to that? the 1441 comes from

The early date of 1441 B.C. places the Exodus under the reign of Pharaoh Amenhotep II of the 18th Dynasty, and many scholars contend that this is the correct Biblical date. ... 1st Kings 6:1 states that Solomon began to build the Temple "in the 480th year after the children of Israel were come up out of the land of Egypt," see https://www.theopedia.com/date-of-the-exodus Currently, debate has centered on two dates: an early date of 1441 B.C.; and a late date of 1290 B.C.

The 1441 comes from the Jews keeping some track of the year as recorded in 1 Kings and is more the conservative view
 
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dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
@whirlingmerc

40257_358fdefec60f0193d55a5418198f5a3b_thumb.jpg


This one's interesting. Not sure though. It's a good fit because of the calligraphy. It requires an artistic scribal professional?

It needs to be a attached to the door post though to be a good comparison. The door post is very important for this example.
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
Oh. I thought it was a calendar.

Well Exodus effectively reset the year to 1 (actually month to 1)
Ex 12:2 This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you

Which makes it credible they might have kept track of how many years passed

Prior to that there was a different system for mons and so some have claimed out Noah landed on the mountain on the 3rd day after Passover. The day of resurrection.

And that would not have been borrowed from another culture.

:)

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(2) The beginning of months.—Hitherto the Hebrews had commenced the year with Tisri, at or near the autumnal equinox. (See Exodus 23:16.) In thus doing, they followed neither the Egyptian nor the Babylonian custom. The Egyptians began the year in June, with the first rise of the Nile; the Babylonians in Nisannu, at the vernal equinox. It was this month which was now made, by God’s command, the first month of the Hebrew year; but as yet it had not the name Nisan: it was called Abib (Exodus 13:4), the month of “greenness.” Henceforth the Hebrews had two years, a civil and a sacred one (Joseph., Ant. Jud., i. 3, § 3). The civil year began with Tisri, in the autumn, at the close of the harvest; the sacred year began with Abib (called afterwards Nisan), six months earlier. It followed that the first civil was the seventh sacred month, and vice versa.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
I'm still looking at these.... I haven't forgotten.

The first linked article titled: "Ancient Hebrew Yashua". I'm trying to find the connection to the Tower of Babel. That seems to be a very weak distant connection to the verse Isa 36:11.

However... I did notice that Isa 36:11 is in 2nd Kings also.... and Sefaria has a nice easy way of seeing it and the commentary attached.

I found one english commentary that mentions the foreign language. It might be relevant to relating the Tower of Babel to Isaiah chapter 36? I honestly don't know.

But that's the first thing on my list of critiques. I don't see the Tower of Babel link to any of this. at least not yet.

Here's the commentary from Sefaria. It's in a spoiler only because it's long. What I noted is, the commentary is focused on doing mitzvot. That's the focus. Not the tower of Babel. But there is a minor mention of something in the middle about "subservience to a people of a completely foreign tongue".

Akeidat Yitzchak 98:1:21 ( Emphasis mine )

When man descends from a high ethical plateau, the descent is the reverse of his previous ascent. Since we have shown that the high moral level had been achieved only in stages, gradually, it stands to reason that the descent if and when it occurs, would also be gradual. At the beginning one still performs the ritual of tradition, but only because it is tradition. Its hold on the personality of the person performing it has already been weakened. Later on, one gives up habits which have become devoid of inner meaning. Finally, one abandons even the theory the "Jewish concept" that had once had the power to prompt one to perform mitzvot not only in spirit but in deed. Verse fifteen already states that Israel will experience full retribution. Verse sixteen begins by listing the calamities that will befall the nation following departure from the path of mitzvot. There are three groups of calamities. The first group begins with: "G'd will afflict you with cholera fever." (28,20) The second group begins with: "the skies will be leaden." (28,23) The third group begins with: "you will fall before your enemies." (28,25) After that there follows a long list of personal afflictions designed to frighten the reader. All this is to emphasize how many and varied are the catastrophies both on a national and on an individual level that the Jewish people had never been exposed to, due to G'ds Personal Providence. This Personal Providence had been extended in order to help them to observe Torah laws with minimal inconvenience and from sheltered conditions. The negative chain reaction works as follows. When mitzvot are neglected, Providence is withdrawn. This makes it harder to observe mitzvot, and increases the pressure of worldly affairs. This in turn leads to further neglect of Torah, resulting in people forgetting what they had once known. One will lose one's self esteem, become enslaved to others both spiritually and materially. All of this is due to the fact that one did not serve G'd joyfully, "with joy and good heartedness" (28,47). The "measure for measure" then is, instead of serving the Lord acknowledging Him as the source of our affluence, you will serve your enemies because you are completely destitute. Having undergone a number of indignities, (28,64) you will be scattered all over the earth. Since the return from Babylon had not really been a true redemption, real independence never having been achieved again, the tochacha, admonition only mentions interludes by again referring to "if you do not observe to carry out." (28,58) If during the many years of your stay in your own country, and despite the suffering absorbed, you continue in your obstinacy, you will wind up suffering the kind of plagues the Egyptians suffered. (28,60) The references to our present diaspora are clear inasmuch as they include subservience to a people of a completely foreign tongue, residing far away from the land of Israel. When the Torah talks about the original exile, it mentions only that our king would be taken captive together with us, to a place unknown to us where we would be forced to worship idols of wood and stone. However, when referring to the second exile, the description includes attempts to assimilate to the various host nations, endeavours which will not yield margoah, a sense of calm, but will eventually result in a return to our original values. Also, one of the features of the long exile will be the fear for our lives which will be constantly present, at least in some Jews in exile. (28,66) All this is in contrast with the ten tribes, who were able to either return or submerge and thus escape further persecution.
 
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sooda

Veteran Member
I'm still looking at these.... I haven't forgotten.

The first linked article titled: "Ancient Hebrew Yashua". I'm trying to find the connection to the Tower of Babel. That seems to be a very weak distant connection to the verse Isa 36:11.

However... I did notice that Isa 36:11 is in 2nd Kings also.... and Sefaria has a nice easy way of seeing it and the commentary attached.

I found one english commentary that mentions the foreign language. It might be relevant to relating the Tower of Babel to Isaiah chapter 36? I honestly don't know.

But that's the first thing on my list of critiques. I don't see the Tower of Babel link to any of this. at least not yet.

Here's the commentary from Sefaria. It's in a spoiler only because it's long. What I noted is, the commentary is focused on doing mitzvot. That's the focus. Not the tower of Babel. But there is a minor mention of something in the middle about "subservience to a people of a completely foreign tongue".

Akeidat Yitzchak 98:1:21 ( Emphasis mine )

When man descends from a high ethical plateau, the descent is the reverse of his previous ascent. Since we have shown that the high moral level had been achieved only in stages, gradually, it stands to reason that the descent if and when it occurs, would also be gradual. At the beginning one still performs the ritual of tradition, but only because it is tradition. Its hold on the personality of the person performing it has already been weakened. Later on, one gives up habits which have become devoid of inner meaning. Finally, one abandons even the theory the "Jewish concept" that had once had the power to prompt one to perform mitzvot not only in spirit but in deed. Verse fifteen already states that Israel will experience full retribution. Verse sixteen begins by listing the calamities that will befall the nation following departure from the path of mitzvot. There are three groups of calamities. The first group begins with: "G'd will afflict you with cholera fever." (28,20) The second group begins with: "the skies will be leaden." (28,23) The third group begins with: "you will fall before your enemies." (28,25) After that there follows a long list of personal afflictions designed to frighten the reader. All this is to emphasize how many and varied are the catastrophies both on a national and on an individual level that the Jewish people had never been exposed to, due to G'ds Personal Providence. This Personal Providence had been extended in order to help them to observe Torah laws with minimal inconvenience and from sheltered conditions. The negative chain reaction works as follows. When mitzvot are neglected, Providence is withdrawn. This makes it harder to observe mitzvot, and increases the pressure of worldly affairs. This in turn leads to further neglect of Torah, resulting in people forgetting what they had once known. One will lose one's self esteem, become enslaved to others both spiritually and materially. All of this is due to the fact that one did not serve G'd joyfully, "with joy and good heartedness" (28,47). The "measure for measure" then is, instead of serving the Lord acknowledging Him as the source of our affluence, you will serve your enemies because you are completely destitute. Having undergone a number of indignities, (28,64) you will be scattered all over the earth. Since the return from Babylon had not really been a true redemption, real independence never having been achieved again, the tochacha, admonition only mentions interludes by again referring to "if you do not observe to carry out." (28,58) If during the many years of your stay in your own country, and despite the suffering absorbed, you continue in your obstinacy, you will wind up suffering the kind of plagues the Egyptians suffered. (28,60) The references to our present diaspora are clear inasmuch as they include subservience to a people of a completely foreign tongue, residing far away from the land of Israel. When the Torah talks about the original exile, it mentions only that our king would be taken captive together with us, to a place unknown to us where we would be forced to worship idols of wood and stone. However, when referring to the second exile, the description includes attempts to assimilate to the various host nations, endeavours which will not yield margoah, a sense of calm, but will eventually result in a return to our original values. Also, one of the features of the long exile will be the fear for our lives which will be constantly present, at least in some Jews in exile. (28,66) All this is in contrast with the ten tribes, who were able to either return or submerge and thus escape further persecution.

Interesting. There are also 2 older stories about the tower of Babel.. one from Babylon and the other from Assyria.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Interesting. There are also 2 older stories about the tower of Babel.. one from Babylon and the other from Assyria.
Send me a link, or post it here, I would appreciate it.

Thank you,
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Send me a link, or post it here, I would appreciate it.

Thank you,

Its been awhile.... Here's one... and I think I have read a better one in the past couple of years. You know these towers were very popular all over the ME.

Gateway to the Heavens: The Assyrian Account to the Tower ...
https://www.ancient-origins.net/.../gateway-heavens-assyrian-account-tower-babel-001751
Jun 13, 2014 · Gateway to the Heavens: The Assyrian Account to the Tower of Babel The story of the construction of a tower in Babel, which resulted in the confounding of language has also confounded modern scholars. The Book of Genesis tells of a time in which all of the world’s population migrated eastward to the plain of Shinar.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Its been awhile.... Here's one... and I think I have read a better one in the past couple of years. You know these towers were very popular all over the ME.

Gateway to the Heavens: The Assyrian Account to the Tower ...
https://www.ancient-origins.net/.../gateway-heavens-assyrian-account-tower-babel-001751
Jun 13, 2014 · Gateway to the Heavens: The Assyrian Account to the Tower of Babel The story of the construction of a tower in Babel, which resulted in the confounding of language has also confounded modern scholars. The Book of Genesis tells of a time in which all of the world’s population migrated eastward to the plain of Shinar.
This will give me a head start, thanks.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
You're welcome.. I am in a pickle.. I have a new smart TV that is too smart for me.. Its ruined my day.. There's more on Babel.. I will find for you tomorrow.
Sounds like my "smart" phone. I keep trying to make it less smart by uninstalling stuff. But each time it updates, the thing is so smart, it re-installs all the crud I was trying to get rid of in the first place.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
@calm,

I'm trying to find the connection to the Tower of Babel.

OK. Maybe you were already aware of this, but, apparently there's a theory floating around that Babylon was the original location of the Tower of Babel.

Once that's accepted as true ( I have no idea if it is ), then this document: 'ANCIENT HEBREW YAHUSHA google' starts making more sense...

But what I'm missing is this. How does this document either support or refute the Tanach? I really don't see the relevance.

I'll start looking at the 2nd article you provided now...
 
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