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Featured Was the Serpent a Literal Snake?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Magdalene, Feb 24, 2021.

  1. 101G

    101G Active Member

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    first thanks for the reply, second, Revelation Past present and future, Revelation 1:19 "Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;"
    and here in chapter 12, it was something John knew and seen,

    Symbolic Meaning to understand chapter 12
    Woman = represent a Church, (the remnant of the Nation, Israel, the church in the wilderness)
    Dragon = behind, or in a person, be it representative of a political, or religious power. (Satan is always in the background)
    Red in this chapter = blood
    Stars = messenger, (human, or angelic)
    Sun = the Righteousness of God, (which source is in the Gospel of Christ)
    Moon = the Righteousness of God, (which source is in the Mosaic Law)

    Revelation 12:1 "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars".
    appeared? First thing, take note, all vision given in heaven, do not necessarily means that the event took place in heaven, only seen there in heaven. this woman represent all of the nation Israel, who remain faithful to God, the southern tribes, (meaning the remnant). this women represent a church, but is Israel the nation, or the remnant a Church?. YES, Let the Scriptures speak for themselves. Acts 7:37 "This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear. 38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us". there she is, "the church in the wilderness". so Israel was a church, and by representation of this woman is found in the virgin Mary, (of the remnant).
    without going into detail,

    Revelation 12:2 "And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered”.
    God already fortold this, Isaiah 66:7 "Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child." Isaiah 66:8 "Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children." Isaiah 66:9 "Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God." Isaiah 66:10 "Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her:" Isaiah 66:11 "That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory."

    Micah 5:2 "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting." Micah 5:3 "Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel."

    Revelation 12:3 "And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads”.
    This great dragon is represented symbolically by king Herod, who in the secular world he was called “the great”, for his reconstruction efforts. remember this is symbolic. Of the devil who is a spirit get others to do his dirty work, he just work behind the scenes. red here is symbolic for blood, for this king had much blood on his hands. supporting scriptures, Matt 2:16 "Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men”. he also had the blood of John the baptist on his hands. The ten horns is the power of the Roman Empire, which he, (king Herod), ruled by, (the romans). king Herod authority was supported by that power, the Roman Empire. so clearly he is a bloody, (red), dragon. as said, keep one hand on chapter 12 of revelation, and the other on Matthews chapter 2. this vision John sees is the birth of the Christ, the start of the Church, that the Lord Jesus christ is building.

    Revelation 12:4 "And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born”.
    The main key here is the word, “tail”, and “of “, as in “of” heaven, and not in heaven, about the stars. stars here is symbolic of men who hold god's written word. stars do not necessary , or automatically means angels. in this verse it means men. those on earth that had heavenly information, or a message, that’s the symbolization used here of, heavenly stars. revelation chapter 12 correspond to the birth of Christ to a tee. Matthews chapter 2 tells how Herod the king tried to kill the baby the Christ. it say that the dragon drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them to earth, this is not a persuasion to follow the dragon, but an attempt by the dragon, (king herod), to use someone to gain heavenly knowledge. it said that his tail “DREW” the THIRD part of the stars of heaven. drew here, means here, "to gather together". so who did king Herod drew, or gathered together? it's the stars or messengers that is (of heaven), that’s on earth, with the heavenly knowledge of where the babe is to be born at. (I'll show this by scripture). Herod the king called/drew, or gathered together unto him his aids, to find out about the new born King, that the wise men came to worship. he wanted to know where the child was born at, so that he may kill the babe, (he stood ready to kill/devour). as said, the word drew, past tense, mean to gather, draw together. king Herod inquired of the men of God, (Heavenly messengers, or Godly men), as to where the babe was born at. lets pick up the account, and see what the "THIRD PART" that he drew with his tail. Matt 2:4 "And when he had gathered all the chief priests,(1 part), and scribes, (2 part), of the people together, (there it is, of the people, not angels in heaven). he demanded of them where Christ should be born". these men was of God, who should know the things of God, and they did. scripture, Matt 2:5 "And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet, 6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel". here it is confirm that the babe came out of Judah. Now lets get the third part, the wise men. Matthews 2:7 “ Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, (3 Part), enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared”. There is the third part, or the third of stares, the wise men. the scriptures said that the dragon, drew a third part, “of”, the stars, “of”, heaven. There you have it, a third part of the STARS. lets recap, Matthews 2:4, 1/3 the chief priests, 2/3 the scribes, and the 3/3 the wise men.there is your 3rd of angels/messengers.

    this is just a little of the Rev 12, but I detail notes on this.

    PICJAG
    101G.
     
  2. Shaul

    Shaul Well-Known Member

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    The Bible is a work of literature. That makes the things described in it, such as the serpent, literal.

    Did you mean actual instead of literal?
     
  3. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    Try Mar-el-Lago.
    The snake in Genesis is said to be 'subtle'. He tells no lies, makes no misleading claims. God had said, If you eat from the Tree of kog&e, you'll die the same day. Eve ate and Adam ate, and just as the snake said, and contrary to what God said, neither of them died at that time.

    Nor is there any identification of the snake with Satan or the devil in Genesis.
    Maybe, but if so it's not based on the actual Garden story. There, God gives only one reason for chucking Adam and Eve out of the garden ─ to stop them becoming immortal (Genesis 3:22-23).
     
  4. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    I believe these are symbolical and have various meanings according to the context. Things like an evil power or dictatorship, materialism, which is like a heavy chain around humanity’s neck preventing us from flying spiritually.

    I believe most of these have a historical interpretation and I know of a few very accurate interpretations by Abdul-Baha.
     
  5. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    the word is derived from root word soothsayer, a person who practices divination, a prophet, serpents were associated with wisdom. naas ireland uses the motto

    Symbolism of the Serpent
     
  6. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    It makes sense to me that God spoke not to the literal serpent, but to the angel who used the serpent, as a means of approaching the woman.
    Imagine if he approached Eve in a human form. That would probably have scared her, and made her more skeptical of what he said.

    God had no reason to reveal to Adam and Eve, that they had just sided with a spirit being in his realm.
    God just needed to let Satan know in symbolic language he would understand, what would happen.
    "I will put enmity between you and the woman", he said.
    Satan knew who that woman was - the same woman mentioned in Revelation 12:1

    So God spoke to the angel (Satan), who used a literal snake, just as the angel used Balaam's donkey.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  7. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    The fight is with the agents of the serpent/devil/father of lies. They are represented as wolves in sheep's clothing, such as the false prophets, whom you will know by their rotten fruit. (Matthew 7:13-23). The serpent's minions, the demons, influence men and kings (Revelation 16:13).
     
  8. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Right, because the word 'day' would Not be a 24-hour day, but a thousand-year day - Psalms 90:4; 2 Peter 3:8
    Adam and Eve would die within a thousand-year time frame. ( a thousand-year day )
    So, with that in mind, please read Genesis 5:5 Genesis 5:27 and you will find No one lived past age 1,000, past that thousand-year day.

    Just as we speak today using the word ' day ' to also mean more than a 24-hour day. For example: Grandfather's day more than 24 hours.
    Also, please notice Genesis 2:4 because ALL of the ' creative days ' are summed up by the single word ' day '.
    Thus, in 'Bible speak', so to speak, the word 'day' does Not have to mean a literal 24-hour day.
     
  9. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Not quite sure why you say ' immortal ' because they were Never offered immortality, but offered everlasting life.
    There is a BIG difference because being immortal would mean being death proofed.
    Whereas, offered 'everlasting life' could only continue if one would keep God's Law.
    Adam and Eve (people) could only live forever on earth if one keeps God's Law.
    This is also true of angelic life, Satan was never offered immortality but everlasting life in the heavens.
    Sinner Satan because he is wicked will be destroyed by Jesus according to Hebrews 2:14 B.
    Adam and Eve were 'chucked' (?) out of the the Garden for breaking God's Law.
    Because we are innocent of what they did is why God's send Jesus to earth for us to be a ransom for us to free us.
     
  10. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    ' wolves in sheep's clothing ' - Acts of the Apostles 20:28-30.
    The apostate false clergy class or the fake ' weed/tares ' Christians.
     
  11. ideogenous_mover

    ideogenous_mover Well-Known Member

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    Here is my thread on Loki and the Snake:

    The importance of a 'trickster' god, Loki and the snake

    I think an issue is, things like dragons or gods with opposing views are only mentioning anecdotally in the bible. In other mythology, these things are more fleshed out, and they are at the center of various stories
     
  12. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    Nope. Just before this part of the story we were told seven times that the morning and the evening are a day ─ remember? The word for 'day' transliterates as 'yom' and is used both there and in the phrase 'in the day you eat of it'. No thousand years about it.

    Besides, if I say to you, Don't eat the biscuit or you'll be dead by3021, would it stop you?

    Adam and Eve were always going to die. God chucked them out of the Garden for only one reason (Genesis 3:22-23) ─ to make sure it stayed that way.
    Nope. They'd die by sunset on the day they ate it or else the snake was right ─ and they didn't die, and the snake was indeed right.

    Incidentally. don't you think it's a wonderful thing, an essential thing, that man knows the difference between good and evil? Don't you think Eve should be one of the great legendary heroines of mankind?
     
  13. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    Please quote me the part where they're offered either everlasting life or immortality.
    Quote me the part where anything like that is said to Adam and Eve.
    Quote me the part where the Garden story says that.
    No. They were not. They were chucked out of the garden to stop them eating from the tree of life and living forever. No other reason is stated or implied.
     
  14. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    No, it was a literal metaphor.
     
  15. sealchan

    sealchan Well-Known Member

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    I think that the serpent as Devil is a later interpretation and not the understanding of the author who wrote the Garden of Eden story. Snakes or serpents represent focused awareness and the cycle of birth-death-rebirth. In this story, that symbolism is treated as a negative resulting in a higher principle, God, supervening and punishing those who intentionally or wirelessly pursue such knowledge. It is part of a strong pattern of devaluing feminine aspects of deity.
     
  16. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe the serpent person was Hel from Norse mythology. She/He was a shapeshifter and a trickster.
     
  17. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe there is no evidence that the serpent in the Garden of Eden was the prince of this world.
     
  18. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe snakes do not talk so "simply a snake" doesn't cut it.
     
  19. cOLTER

    cOLTER Well-Known Member

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    By the time the story Got to the writers of Genesis it was called a “Crafty Beast”. Lucifer was the leader of the rebellion. Their were many in the celestial world who followed him into rebellion.
     
  20. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    Do you believe snakes have legs? Ohhhhhh you think the snake was chaaanged. I see. So "simply a snake" meant something different before Adam and Eve ate the fruit.
     
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