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Was the apostle Paul sexist?

njcl

Active Member
and pray when did you recieve discernment to know pauls judgement of me??............we are in different times zones here,i do not concurr with societies view of women today as such as celebrities given icon status and feted,its perverse and ungodly same goes with male celebrities also,not only them but supermodels,sportsmen/women
 

Prima

Well-Known Member
and pray when did you recieve discernment to know pauls judgement of me??
I don't see anywhere that anyone implied that we know paul's judgement of you in particular.

I don't agree with society's view of women either, as icons and sex symbols. That doesn't mean I think they're lesser or that they shouldn't lead.

But that's not the point. In Paul's society, women were looked at as lovable in their own right, but not as equal to men, which Paul reflects, which is sexist. There is little more to say.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
I agree... icon status should not be given to anyone, including Paul. Hey! Didn't I just say that a couple of posts back? :D
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
I have just re-read the entire thread.
taken as a whole it bcomes clear that those supportig Paul are doing so to support their own Sexism. Those suggesting that Paul was indeed sexist note that everyone in Pauls time were sexist. but now we live in a more enlightened age whwer sexism is recognised for what it is.

Terry

-----=-----------------------------------------------
Blessed are the pure of heart, they shall behold their God
 
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njcl

Active Member
yeh enlightened age,child abuse,rape at its highest number,god haters,making idols of famous stars,church numbers decreasing,terrorism.................:(
 

Pah

Uber all member
njcl said:
yeh enlightened age,child abuse,rape at its highest number,god haters,making idols of famous stars,church numbers decreasing,terrorism.................:(
I wouldn't bemoan the age so much and think that there wasn't a failure in the traditional American family. It's not all an external influence you know
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
njcl said:
yeh enlightened age,child abuse,rape at its highest number,god haters,making idols of famous stars,church numbers decreasing,terrorism ...(
You overlooked the part about 'lions and tigers and bears - oh my!' Do you have any idea what the condition of children was in the past? Do you have any bases for asserting that "rape [is] at its highest"? Are you wholly ignorant of the terrorism of the Crusades, the Inquisition, the pogrom, the witch trials?

Repeat after me: Chicken Little was a schmuck! Chicken Little was a schmuck! Chicken Little was a schmuck!
 

njcl

Active Member
i had best mention the 6 million jewish souls that lost their lives in the holocaust as a sign of these enlightened times
 

Pah

Uber all member
njcl said:
firstly im english and was speaking of the world as a whole not america....
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=3231
Murders per 100,000.
1. Russia Federation 18.07
2. United States 6.32
3. Malaysia 2.73
Taiwan 1.17
Spain 1.08
Japan 0.58

Rape per 100,000.
1. United States 34.20
2. England and Wales 14.69
3. France 13.38
Taiwan 8.82
South Korea 4.38
Spain 3.23
Japan 1.48

Serious Assault per 100,000.
1. Australia 713.68
2. England & Wales 405.20
3. United States 357.94
Taiwan 37.30
Spain 23.94
Japan 15.40

Robbery/Violent Theft per 100,000.
1. Spain 169.85
2. United States 169.02
3. France 144.10
Taiwan 14.35
South Korea 11.74
Japan 2.71

Although anecdotal, the idolization of rock stars probably started in Great Britian but grew in the United States.

The decline in church numbers though assumed to be world wide is appearing in Europe and that IS from Christian families.

So, you see, America leads most categories you mentioned but it is still the responsibilty of "family values" families. Your diversion of mentioning scope doesn't change that fact.
 

Pah

Uber all member
njcl said:
i had best mention the 6 million jewish souls that lost their lives in the holocaust as a sign of these enlightened times
Wasn't that the time of "family values" families? Wasn' that the nation that was still predominently Christian lead by a Christian. But in any case, it was hardly the era of enlighted civil liberty. That didn't happen till the 60's and 70's
 

njcl

Active Member
pah said:
Wasn't that the time of "family values" families? Wasn' that the nation that was still predominently Christian lead by a Christian. But in any case, it was hardly the era of enlighted civil liberty. That didn't happen till the 60's and 70's
huh christians,a christian leader??.........very handy are labels sometimes,as for the nazis and those that followed their docterine well i do hope they enjoy their meeting with the christ and the mighty angels....*WINK*
 

Prima

Well-Known Member
taken as a whole it bcomes clear that those supportig Paul are doing so to support their own Sexism. Those suggesting that Paul was indeed sexist note that everyone in Pauls time were sexist. but now we live in a more enlightened age whwer sexism is recognised for what it is.
Truth rears its ugly head.

This is not a discussion about whether sexism is okay or not at this time. By being sexist (as proved earlier) and supporting Paul's ideas, you show him to be clearly sexist. But you're entirely missing the fact that none of us are attacking Paul. Yes, Paul was sexist. But that doesn't mean you have to defend his honor, because we never criticized him for it - on the contrary, we excused him for it because of the time period.

And yes, as far as sexism goes, we live in a (mostly) enlightened age.
 

njcl

Active Member
your assuming paul was sexist because of your own slant on whats sexist or not,yet i think his conduct was not sexist,women are like children,they need looking after,thats my assumption after many liasons with them
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
My own experience of women is that I've known many strong, mature women who are anything but childish. What's to say, NJCL, that your experience of the women you've known is any more valid than my experience of the women I've known? Nothing that I can see. And so, I don't think you can generalize your experience of women to all women. Are you implying, then, that Paul's experience of women was as limited as yours?
 

njcl

Active Member
i assure you i know all i need to know about women,also iv yet to meet a true christian woman despite being a member of many churches,oops i tell a lie,once a woman spoke in tongues in church one day but apart from her zip
 

Prima

Well-Known Member
your assuming paul was sexist because of your own slant on whats sexist or not,yet i think his conduct was not sexist,women are like children,they need looking after,thats my assumption after many liasons with them
Sexism:
  1. Discrimination based on gender, especially discrimination against women.
  2. Attitudes, conditions, or behaviors that promote stereotyping of social roles based on gender.
I have no slant on what's sexist or not - I'm going by the dictionary definition. Paul discriminates based on gender. Paul and yourself are promoting stereotyping relating to social roles (women should live in the home and be guided, etc...they are more childish) Therefore both you and Paul are sexist.


You're familiar with the scientific method, yes?

Well, say I'm seeing if Americans are crazier than Australians. I survey people in American mental health institutions, and everyday Australians. Clearly my data is skewed. You're judging women by your own relationships, and men in general - your data is skewed, so your conclusion is flawed.
 

Prima

Well-Known Member
i assure you i know all i need to know about women,also iv yet to meet a true christian woman despite being a member of many churches,oops i tell a lie,once a woman spoke in tongues in church one day but apart from her zip
That might be all you think you need to know, but if you want a good relationship, you need to learn a little more! You should write to Dear Abby...

So, do all men need to speak in tongues to be true Christians, or just women?
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
njcl said:
i assure you i know all i need to know about women,also iv yet to meet a true christian woman despite being a member of many churches,oops i tell a lie,once a woman spoke in tongues in church one day but apart from her zip
It seems possible that your experience of women is somewhat limited to women of a certain type, despite the large number of women that you've known.
 
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