Mr Spinkles
Mr
Ok. If I may make a suggestion: next time you want to “skip” the central point / topic of the thread ... maybe start with that. #facepalm
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Was Ted Cruz Right?
- Thread starter Mr Spinkles
- Start date
Mr Spinkles
Mr
I appreciate the clarification.
Can you explain how Ted Cruz can be “50% correct” that Donald Trump is a pathological liar?
He used very strong words ... are you saying Trump is only half as bad as Cruz suggested - a liar, perhaps, but not a pathological one? A narcissist, but not a bully?
Or are you saying what Cruz said is 100% true concerning Trump, but he left out the other half of the story ... presumably, that all politicians are equally dishonest as Trump, etc?
Help me out here.
leov
Well-Known Member
Trump is a liar, is he a pathological? i do not know, as i said they are ALL liars or have no problem to lie or murder....
You posted something which interested me.Ok. If I may make a suggestion: next time you want to “skip” the central point / topic of the thread ... maybe start with that. #facepalm
I addressed it.
But I never use those emoji things.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
I suppose one could claim that Trump is a half "donkeyed" liar. That sounds like 50% to me.
Mr Spinkles
Mr
Why do you think most fact-checking organizations rate Trump as lying significantly more than most politicians? Is it because Trump actually does lie more, or because they are biased against him, in your view?
For example, do you have reason to believe the Washington Post is inaccurate in its reporting below?
Three years after taking the oath of office, President Trump has made more than 16,200 false or misleading claims — a milestone that would have been unthinkable when we first created the Fact Checker’s database that analyzes, categorizes and tracks every suspect statement he has uttered.
We started this project as part of our coverage of the president’s first 100 days, largely because we could not possibly keep up with the pace and volume of the president’s misstatements. We recorded 492 claims — an average of just under five a day — and readers demanded that we keep it going for the rest of Trump’s presidency.
Little did we know what that would mean.
In 2017, Trump made 1,999 false or misleading claims. In 2018, he added 5,689 more, for a total of 7,688. And in 2019, he made 8,155 suspect claims.
In other words, in a single year, the president said more than total number of false or misleading claims he had made in the previous two years. Put another way: He averaged six such claims a day in 2017, nearly 16 a day in 2018 and more than 22 a day in 2019.
As of Jan. 19, his 1,095th day in office, Trump had made 16,241 false or misleading claims. Only 366 days to go — at least in this term.
The president added to his total on Sunday evening with more than 20 Trumpian claims — many old favorites — during a triumphant speech at the annual conference of the American Farm Bureau Federation. He incorrectly described trade agreements — suggesting Canadian dairy tariffs were eliminated and an agreement with Japan to reduce tariffs on $7 billion of farm products was “a $40 billion deal” — and also falsely asserted that “tough” farmers and ranchers were crying as he signed a repeal of Obama-era regulations. A video of the event shows no one crying.
We started this project as part of our coverage of the president’s first 100 days, largely because we could not possibly keep up with the pace and volume of the president’s misstatements. We recorded 492 claims — an average of just under five a day — and readers demanded that we keep it going for the rest of Trump’s presidency.
Little did we know what that would mean.
In 2017, Trump made 1,999 false or misleading claims. In 2018, he added 5,689 more, for a total of 7,688. And in 2019, he made 8,155 suspect claims.
In other words, in a single year, the president said more than total number of false or misleading claims he had made in the previous two years. Put another way: He averaged six such claims a day in 2017, nearly 16 a day in 2018 and more than 22 a day in 2019.
As of Jan. 19, his 1,095th day in office, Trump had made 16,241 false or misleading claims. Only 366 days to go — at least in this term.
The president added to his total on Sunday evening with more than 20 Trumpian claims — many old favorites — during a triumphant speech at the annual conference of the American Farm Bureau Federation. He incorrectly described trade agreements — suggesting Canadian dairy tariffs were eliminated and an agreement with Japan to reduce tariffs on $7 billion of farm products was “a $40 billion deal” — and also falsely asserted that “tough” farmers and ranchers were crying as he signed a repeal of Obama-era regulations. A video of the event shows no one crying.
Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...e-or-misleading-claims-his-first-three-years/
Or, do you have reason to believe that PolitiFact's scorecard of Trump is skewed against him? See below. While not comprehensive, the trend is that leading political figures from both parties average 15-30% "false" or "mostly false" statements. Trump is batting 70% false or mostly false statements. Remarkable - yet unsurprising to anyone who is paying attention.
Mr Spinkles
Mr
Oh by the way, you also skipped Lindsay Graham and Mitt Romney's thoughts. Let me know if there is any leader more emblematic of the Trump Party today that should have been included (John McCain? George W. Bush? That would cover every recent GOP president or nominee)
Here is what Rand Paul said in January 2016:
"Donald Trump is a delusional narcissist and an orange-faced windbag ... A speck of dirt is way more qualified to be president. ... I’m not sure I would say Trump is Hitler – Goebbels maybe. ... I have compared him to Gollum from ‘Lord of the Rings."
Source: Rand Paul: Trump is an ‘orange-faced windbag’
Do you care to respond to any of these or are they all below your threshold?
Any other luminaries from the Trump Party that we missed so far?
Your concerns (what other politicians say about Trump as a
person) differ from mine (real world effects of Trump's policies).
So their drama does not interest me.
You & I have very different weltanschauungen.
leov
Well-Known Member
Trump made a lot of promises to his people, too complex problem, US in dire conditions economically and politically. His gross lies are because he had painted himself in a corner but i do not see any ather president solving those problems.
Mr Spinkles
Mr
Ah. I thought you said you didn't care what Ted Cruz says (which would have been admirable, by the way). It turns out, you don't care to respond to what anybody says.
... At least, not when they are criticizing Trump, and not when they are Trump Party "luminaries". When I criticize Trump, and by extension his supporters ... well ... that cannot stand!
What a fun system of ostrich-holes you have constructed, that allow you to bury your head from the once-criticism of Trump that came from the Right, but pop out a side-entrance to scold critics of Trump when they come from the Left. How interesting and convenient that certain things "interest" you - like an off-topic discussion of my putative motives or emotions in criticizing Trump - and other things simply do not strike your "interest" - like the topic of the thread you are replying to, i.e., the scathing denunciations of Trump's character by most major Trump Party leaders, before they surrendered to him and his whipped-up base. This is all quite fascinating to me.
Having said that, you have raised a point that many in Trumpworld raise, which is they are focused on what he does, not on what he says. So perhaps I should start a separate thread to engage with that topic.
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Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
And that's to say the left is any better?
You misunderstand.
I criticized your mischievous claim about Trump voter motives.
Now you try to make it about something else...something uninteresting.
About ostriches....
You care greatly about personal drama, but less about effects of policy.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Unfortunately right now the left is better. I wish that was not the case.
Mr Spinkles
Mr
Thanks. I have to disagree with you, leov.
Many of Trump's lies are totally unnecessary and are essentially ignored by his own people. To pick one of perhaps hundreds if not thousands of documented examples, Trump said that Robert Mueller had unspecified "conflicts of interest" and should therefore be removed. No one - literally, I think not one person in this country, but please correct me if you know of an example - ever took this seriously. Not even Trump's own staff, not even his own appointed Attorney General, Jeff Sessions. Crazy Uncle Donny was just babbling to himself and his supporters tried to just ignore it and make it go away.
So Trump's lies go well beyond "politician making promises they can't keep", types of lies. He delves often into "mad-king" types of lies.
To the extent nothing has gone terribly wrong under his administration yet - at least nothing that seriously impacts the wealthy and/or white men who form the core of his base - it is because his staff have actively worked against his worst instincts and reined him in. We have been lucky so far. The Trump Party has decided to take the risk, because they believe it is worth it to fulfill their agenda of tax cuts and deregulation ... I think that is a shameful departure from how voters ought to look at the world. Because they are putting us all at risk in the service of their political agenda, and they know it. Of course they see Trump as worth it because if he succeeds, they achieve their agenda, if he crashes, we all share the burden as a country. It's a shameful calculation, one that ought to break rules of decency which transcend partisanship, in my view.
But the flip-flopping of Cruz, Graham, and Paul and the once-criticism of Romney and McCain show that is essentially the calculation that transformed the GOP into the Trump Party.
leov
Well-Known Member
i view our politics from Gnostic POV, presidents chosen by elite, Trump was chosen as a clown and a punching bag. and this is exactly what happens...his handlers expected him to be a gross liar as American people hardly heard any truth from the day one of this country.
Mr Spinkles
Mr
I backed up my claim with relevant facts / evidence. You have provided none (but let me know if I missed it). For example, I said that Trump voters decided to support a bully. Ted Cruz, who I believe had the support of the most Republican voters next to Trump during the primary, called Trump - and no one else, to my knowledge - a bully.
The third place candidate in the Republican primary was John Kasich, who now supports Trump's impeachment ... for what I would argue is Trump being his same "bullying" self towards a tiny ally, Ukraine and his own staff in the budget office. But I will let Mr. Kasich speak for himself, and let you perform the gymnastics necessary to dismiss as unremarkable the damning views (current or historical) every major Trump Party leader seems to have had of Trump:
To criticize someone's motives for voting,
without asking them what their motives are,
would be to eschew the most relevant facts.
Mr Spinkles
Mr
[ Deafening silence ] ... Do you ... care to submit some kind of fact of your own?
I am saying every major leader of the GOP recognized Trump as (to paraphrase) a scumbag, and yet they chose to support him, or purge or silence those who didn't. I note you have not disputed the facts presented on this thread or presented any of your own in response.
Kangaroo Feathers
Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
Cruz seems to be on the money on this one. Of course, Cruz is one of the few candidates I thought would have been actually worse than trump. While trump is just a self righteous incompetent, I believe cruz would actively, willfully harm people.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
How is it that inappropriate benevolent are now OK because "everyone does it?" Since when has that been our standards? Everyone lies. It's a fact. Some more than others. Trump moreso than most others. And a lot of times it's over crap that doesn't matter--and easy proven false--free house claims to have the biggest inauguration crowds, election victory margins, and hand size. He claims all the are big, but they are all tiny. And when caught he never admitted he was wrong, which is also problematic. He appears to have no remorse over it, no regrets, and no intention of trying to be even a little more honest and accept just a little more self accountability and responsibility. Rather he blames someone else, displaces blame, or keeps on with his lie.