1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Was Peter the First Pope?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by t3gah, Dec 24, 2004.

?

Was Peter the First Pope?

Poll closed Jan 14, 2005.
  1. Yes

    6 vote(s)
    28.6%
  2. No

    7 vote(s)
    33.3%
  3. I'm not sure

    4 vote(s)
    19.0%
  4. Who cares?!

    4 vote(s)
    19.0%
  5. Other (I'll post my response)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Messages:
    16,472
    Ratings:
    +3,192
    Religion:
    Christian Taoist
    Well Scott,

    That's not for ME to decide.

    Philippians 2: 12Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose. NIV

    If it's OK with you, I will continue to do just this: work out MY salvation. If others choose to follow the path I have choosen, then my journey will not be as lonely. :D Our salvation is not corporate but individual. I do believe that on the "last day" there wil be many who will be quite surprised... but I only believe that because the Bible teaches me that. Jesus won't be asking what denomination you followed: he'll be asking other questions.
     
  2. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2004
    Messages:
    8,303
    Ratings:
    +953
    WHAT?
    WHAT?

    You tell us that "Paul would have had HUGE issues with being lumped into any such "denomination" and now you say you have no opinion on the matter?

    In every other thread it seems you profess your desire to build a church of the Bible.... to worship together as the "early Christians".... and now you are just worried about YOUR salvation?

    Methinks thou danceth purty!;)
     
  3. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Messages:
    16,472
    Ratings:
    +3,192
    Religion:
    Christian Taoist
    Scott,

    I fully accept that I am not to be the JUDGE of who is a Christian and who is not.

    But I also see (from the scripture) that Paul was aghast at the beginnings of denominations. Frankly, so am I. That does not make you a "non-Christian".

    Do I have "opinions" on the matter. I think I have made those clear. :D

    Do I preach Christ and him crucified every chance I get? Yep. Whodathunk? Do I feel that I need to enter your chapels and convert the heathen Catholic Church? Nope. I am glad you do what you do... even if some of it is not scriptural. After all... nobody's perfect! :D

    Philippians 1:15 It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16 The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17 The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. 18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice. NIV
     
  4. Malus 12:9

    Malus 12:9 Temporarily Deactive.

    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Messages:
    1,672
    Ratings:
    +99
    This is straying off the topic ya know, BUT NetD and Scott's topic is much more
    interesting than:

    "Was Peter the first Pope, while he was Satan.."
     
  5. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Messages:
    16,472
    Ratings:
    +3,192
    Religion:
    Christian Taoist
    Renaldo,

    it is evident to Scott and I, that we agree much more than we disagree. In fact, I suspect that Scott is quite close to being perfect. If he would just follow what I believe, he would be just that! :D Bwahahaha!

    I see him as nothing less than a brother and he knows that.
     
  6. Malus 12:9

    Malus 12:9 Temporarily Deactive.

    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Messages:
    1,672
    Ratings:
    +99
    Alright.

    But, it is still better than "Was Peter the first Pope, via him being Satan".

    Why is it t3gah (thread starter) does not have any say in the matter?
     
  7. Uncertaindrummer

    Uncertaindrummer Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Messages:
    308
    Ratings:
    +31
    Who says it isn't scriptural? You? Are you infallbile? Just curious. I am wondering why you think you know for CERTAIN what the Bible says. Because everyone thinks they know for certain, and yet everyone disagrees. So why is YOUR interpretation correct? Why is the Holy Spirit working through YOU and no the thousands of other denominations and "non-denominations"?
     
  8. jimbob

    jimbob The Celt

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    894
    Ratings:
    +114
    Cause he's one of those people who like to press peoples buttons, step back, and watch the chaos.:D
     
  9. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Messages:
    16,472
    Ratings:
    +3,192
    Religion:
    Christian Taoist
    Because I happen to study it daily. I would highly suggest this to those who would follow it.

    Do you think that the God who raised Jesus from the dead is impotent to leave us his word? Do you further suppose that the clarity of the scriptures is proportionate to your propensity to do as it says? God is not at fault for those who choose to do things THEIR way and not HIS way.

    But as I pointed out in another thread, the Roman Catholic Church sees following the Bible ONLY as heresy. In fact, this was one of the faults that many of the reformists and protestants had with the church: they didn't want their members to have access to the scriptures.

    Have you ever wondered WHY I tend to quote more scripture than most people on this forum? It's not a show of arrogance, to demonstrate that I know the scriptures better. Rather, it is a show of humility, in that the Bible speaks far better and with greater power than I ever could.

    I Peter 3:15 But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, 16 keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander. NIV
     
  10. Uncertaindrummer

    Uncertaindrummer Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Messages:
    308
    Ratings:
    +31
    I'm sorry but I CANNOT take this seriously. Are you so arrogant as to believe that you are the FIRST CHRISTIAN IN THE MODERN ERA to study Scripture daily? I would hope not. I study Scripture daily. THOUSANDS of Christians who disagree with you study it FAR more and more OFTEN than you do. Lots of people do it as a LIVING and do not come to the same conclusion. You cannot possibly think you are the only one who has it "right" because you STUDY it more often. I can study it until I die and I will still disagree with you. So am I right jsut becuase I study it more? Of course not!

    How do you know YOUR not doing it "your" way?

    Not true, all Catholics are encouraged to read the Bible.

    Indeed. But the very same Bible you keep quoting says no matter of Scripture is of private interpretation. So you are in essence breaking the Scripture's law by doing just that.
     
  11. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Messages:
    16,472
    Ratings:
    +3,192
    Religion:
    Christian Taoist
    Many (if not most) of the people study the Bible with an eye to supporting what they already believe.

    Some of us (very few) study the Bible with an eye to changing our personal understanding on a DAILY basis.

    That's NOT what I said, now is it? Maybe you are as adept at twisting scripture as you are at twisting my words?

    I did say:
    Now, do you deny that this is true?
     
  12. Quiddity

    Quiddity UndertheInfluenceofGiants

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2005
    Messages:
    19,866
    Ratings:
    +1,395
    Religion:
    Catholic
    Everybody enters something with a bias NetDoc. Everyone is influenced by his own biases and presuppositions, but overcoming those problems is what clarity is all about. It’s about presenting your ideas so plainly that most people can understand them regardless of their biases and presuppositions. Only the RCC has such a system.

    That we are to follow the Bible ALONE? We absolutely reject this.

    ~Victor
     
  13. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Messages:
    16,472
    Ratings:
    +3,192
    Religion:
    Christian Taoist
    Victor...

    Awesome responses. You are truly thinking now. Thanks for NOT twisting what I posted! :D
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. HelpMe

    HelpMe ·´sociopathic meanderer`·

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2004
    Messages:
    1,313
    Ratings:
    +62
  15. may

    may Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2004
    Messages:
    3,665
    Ratings:
    +110
    well just to put the cat amongst the pigions:D lets see what the bible says

    Sym´e·on has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name (Acts 15;14)..........so who bears Gods name Jehovah

    In the first century, the "people for his name" was the Christian congregation. Is there a people for God’s name today? Yes, and it does not take long to work out who they are.

    Under their Head, Jesus Christ, these "holy ones" are heirs of the Kingdom that Jehovah will use to sanctify His great name and to vindicate His sovereignty.—Daniel 2:44; 7:13, 14, 27; Revelation 4:9-11; 5:9, 10.

     
  16. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Messages:
    16,472
    Ratings:
    +3,192
    Religion:
    Christian Taoist
    Now THAT was off topic!

    The whole issue boils down to this... is the papacy found in the New Testament?

    The quick answer is "no".
     
  17. dan

    dan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2004
    Messages:
    1,464
    Ratings:
    +96
    Peter was the first President of the Church, but we are specifically commanded to call no man Father on this earth. Pope means Father. He purports to be Christ's replacement. Provocative.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Quiddity

    Quiddity UndertheInfluenceofGiants

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2005
    Messages:
    19,866
    Ratings:
    +1,395
    Religion:
    Catholic
    The common understanding, among those who are critical of the practice of calling priests “father,” is that Jesus meant to forbid the use of this word as a religious title, the very thing Catholics do! But if we let Scripture interpret Scripture, this argument falls apart. For one thing, the apostles themselves referred to their followers as their spiritual children, and to themselves as spiritual fathers. For example, Paul wrote,



    Even though you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel (1 Cor. 4:15).​

    Was Paul being disobedient by referring to himself as the spiritual father of the Corinthians? If he was not, then neither are Catholics, and this objection is defeated. But there’s more: Consider Paul’s comment to the Philippians about Timothy:



    But you know that Timothy has proved himself, because as a son with his father he has served with me in the work of the gospel. (Phil 2:22).



     
  19. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Messages:
    16,472
    Ratings:
    +3,192
    Religion:
    Christian Taoist
    Paul was not asking Timothy to call him father, however he was referring to the special connection between the two of them. Their relationship was incredibly unique and God honoring. Every Christian should have a Paul and a Timothy in their lives.
     
  20. dan

    dan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2004
    Messages:
    1,464
    Ratings:
    +96
    I'm aware of the metaphors Paul expressed, but they ended at being metaphors. No one was directly addressed as Father.
     
Loading...