Was Paul crazy?

[Xian Pugilist]

How do YOU reconcile....

5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death.

14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. 17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.

 

[outhouse]

How do YOU reconcile....

5For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death.

14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. 17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.

while I think paul was nuts



you havnt provided any evidence. You also need to post a link to your sources when you copy and paste information

 

[Xian Pugilist]

while I think paul was nuts



you havnt provided any evidence. You also need to post a link to your sources when you copy and paste information

Seems I was asking a question. How do you prove a question?

Doesn't the ("-?-") at the end of the comment prove it's a question?

It's an opinion seeking post. I can reconcile the issues just fine. You are trying to hard to prove something.

After someone puts an answer in, and I doubt many Xians will, we tend to avoid things that challenge our beliefs, I can play devils advocate and start the debate....

 

[outhouse]

How do YOU reconcile....

OK you want the truth?



I think you cannot reconcile this due to ignorance of first century anthropology, where people educated in this text see clearly why paul wrote what he did.

your talking Romans out of context.

 

[idav]

How do YOU reconcile....

5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death.

14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. 17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.

He may have been crazy but you wouldn't know it from those verses. In those verses he seems to be scapegoating pretty hard but thats rather normal unfortunately.

 

[Xian Pugilist]

OK you want the truth?

I think you cannot reconcile this due to ignorance of first century anthropology, where people educated in this text see clearly why paul wrote what he did.

your talking Romans out of context.

I always want the truth.

But you can't show me how I'm taking anything out of context, and to say I am is just evasive not helpful. I'm not griping, just observing. You make lots of bold hints, but you don't deliver anything. If I'm wrong, correct me, educate me. Don't just throw an empty "You are wrong" out here....

 

[Xian Pugilist]

He may have been crazy but you wouldn't know it from those verses. In those verses he seems to be scapegoating pretty hard but thats rather normal unfortunately.

heheheh.

Ok, so you see no problem with saying HE's not in the flesh.... THEN saying that flesh that isn't there anymore makes him misbehave?

That's like saying YES I AM IN THE WATER, NO I AM NOT WET!

 

[idav]

heheheh.

Ok, so you see no problem with saying HE's not in the flesh.... THEN saying that flesh that isn't there anymore makes him misbehave?

That's like saying YES I AM IN THE WATER, NO I AM NOT WET!

Yup that is kinda how I saw it too. I don't agree with it but it is stating that sin is a spiritual issue so that his conscious can stay clear. Equivalent to saying "the devil made me do it but I still reside with christ".

 

[outhouse]

I always want the truth.

But you can't show me how I'm taking anything out of context, and to say I am is just evasive not helpful. I'm not griping, just observing. You make lots of bold hints, but you don't deliver anything. If I'm wrong, correct me, educate me. Don't just throw an empty "You are wrong" out here....

I asked you for more evidence, in which you rambled off something completely off topic.

you have to build a case first, taking script out of context doesnt cut it

 

[Xian Pugilist]

Yup that is kinda how I saw it too. I don't agree with it but it is stating that sin is a spiritual issue so that his conscious can stay clear. Equivalent to saying "the devil made me do it but I still reside with christ".

I understand your position. I understand why you think that, it's what I was taught. I think there is another answer though that wouldn't be as quirky, would make more sense, and shows Paul to be the Aristotlean Schooled mind that he was.

 

[Xian Pugilist]

I asked you for more evidence, in which you rambled off something completely off topic.

you have to build a case first, taking script out of context doesnt cut it

Are you stoned?

You asked for evidence of what? I made no claims to prove. I asked a question. That's off topic to you..... then you are a .....insert rules appropriately comical pejorative here....

 

[outhouse]

You asked for evidence of what?

why you think paul was crazy, your basis for your OP

I asked a question

yes, you asked one from a standpoint of taking scripture out of context.



trying to make a valid case against pauls sanity would require more then a gross misunderstanding of scripture.

like I stated, I would love for some real work done on this as I question it myself. But I wont go in backwards trying to make a case for it.

 

[javajo]

I believe Paul was just showing that although the Law is good and holy and right, for us, having the sinful nature passed down to us from Adam, and being unable to keep the law, it shows us we fall short. Since the result or penalty of sin is death, that puts us in a terrible position, but ultimately leads us to Christ our Saviour, who paid the penalty by dying for us.

Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Gal. 3:24