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Was Paul a legitimate apostle?

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by tstep182, Jun 26, 2021.

  1. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    I dunno but Matthew is pretty straightforward and quite clear.


    "Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not".


    Paul completely ignored and violated that warning. He claimed to people that Christ had talked to him. He wasn't to believe it, and he did so anyways in violation of the warning not to believe.

    The directive then is to not believe Paul's claims to have met Christ making him a false apostle in his own right. A man not to be believed.

    A lot of people think Pauline Christianity is an imposter religion that effectively destroyed early Christianity due to the violation of the directive in Matthew by Paul.
     
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  2. DNB

    DNB Christian

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    You're entirely off your rocker. Did you ever bother to read the complete passage? Again, Christ is warning about false prophets, he is NOT talking about himself!?!?!?

    Matthew 24:23-27
    24:23. "Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or 'There He is,' do not believe him. 24. "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. 25. "Behold, I have told you in advance. 26. "So if they say to you, 'Behold, He is in the wilderness,' do not go out, or, 'Behold, He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe them. 27. "For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
     
  3. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    And what did Paul do instead?

    He violated it by saying he met Christ and told others where Christ was when he met him. Not to mention he decieved a lot of people who believed Paul, that gave rise to Pauline Christianity.

    There's only two outcomes.

    Christs return was at Damascus, thereby fulfilling the second coming right then and there.

    Or..

    Paul is actually one of the false prophets warned about in Matthew, claiming he saw Christ at a location and deceiving the very elect.

    Either way it puts Matthew out of place, or the book of Paul is.

    It's pretty damming stuff.
     
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  4. DNB

    DNB Christian

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    'damming' does not have two 'm's, plus you're missing an 'n'.
     
  5. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    When did that happen?

    My dictionary is out of date?


    Definition of DAMNING

    Oh ...

    Your right.

    Stupid typing finger.
     
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  6. DNB

    DNB Christian

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    plus, your exegesis is horrible and inept.
     
  7. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    I agree with one on what I have colored in magenta.

    Regards
     
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  8. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Was Paul a legitimate apostle?

    Further to post @ #27 ^:
    Jesus and or Mary both of them did never read from the 4-Gosples in vogue in the Pauline-Christianity and did never own them as their scripture, to me, please. Right?
    Paul was, I understand, not a legitimate apostle of Jesus rather Paul and the Church he founded, I perceive, worked Anti-Jesus against the truthful teachings of Jesus, please. Right?

    Regards
     
  9. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    I consider him a Trojan horse. Stoning them wasn’t working so he infiltrated and corrupted.
     
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  10. Bree

    Bree Member

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    He was legitimately selected by Jesus himself as the road to Damascus account shows. And the Apostles in Jerusalem did accept him as apostle which is seen by the letters they wrote to the congregations. They confirmed Paul was an apostle.
     
  11. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I suppose one could ask who makes the rules for apostleship. I think the church leaders would like to say that the original twelve were Apostles but then there is Judas so maybe they would make an exception for Matthias. Paul is an apostle by definition of the term and so is Barnabas.
     
  12. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe it would be if he actually saw a physical Jesus. However it never states that. The Jesus he met was in a light so that means it was visionary.
     
  13. Hawkins

    Hawkins Well-Known Member

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    If God is not true, whether Paul being faked is not important. If on the other hand God is true, He won't allow half of His NT crafted by a faked Paul.

    That said. The rank apostle has multi-fold meanings. First it's not limited to prophet type humans as long as they are deemed eyewitnesses of Jesus. The twelve were actually usual humans. They are not in the category of the prophets which are supernaturally called. Paul on the other hand is a "prophet type" character given the rank of apostle. Paul was called supernaturally as any other OT prophets (i.e., eyewitnesses of God). Second, apostle is a rank higher than the prophets. Apostles are ranked first in God's earthly Church followed by prophets. Apostles are basically eyewitnesses of Jesus including those direct disciples such as the twelve and one summoned supernaturally who is Paul. They are all eyewitnesses of Jesus in one way or another for the crafting of the NT Bible.

    Moreover, Paul to Jesus more or less resembles Moses to God, with Moses receiving a "face to face" revelation from God. Paul as a famous Pharisee expertized in the Jewish laws and theologies, was chosen to lay the theological foundation of Christianity.
     
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