Was Mohammed who penned the koran (quran) a false prophet?

[Ori]

According to Jesus statement in the new testament of the bible, he, Jesus, states that all those that come after him stating something new that's not in the bible are false prophets and false christs. which means that the mohammed of the koran (quran) is a false prophet and an antichrist because he's taught people a different way that what christianity teaches.

Is that so or not?

To me the answer is "yes". But then again the bible goes on to state that all those who have jobs that are not serving the christian disciples completely, are homeless, except for a tent, stay at other peoples homes, speak in other peoples meeting places and travel to every city there is wearing every day plain clothes, and don't go back to each place that says "go away" are not real Christians at all. Which goes against some other texts that show that the tent makers had a home. But I'll get to that in another thread.

Bear in mind that many Jews still see Jesus as a false prophet.

 

[TashaN]

I have some questions about Jesus in the Quran. Mohammed seems to want to challenge Christianity and then again adopt Jesus into the fold. This is a contradiction no matter how many nice things he says about Jesus. I think the point you have missed is that even though some Christians may think that the story in the Gospels may be "colored", the essence of Jesus and His importance still remains. There can be no resolution for Christians on Islam because Jesus is the one and will not play second fiddle to another religion.

Mohammed seems to want to challenge but he wasn't doing so because it has nothing to do with christianity but Mohammed (PBUH) came to the whole world till the Judgment day.

If you have gone through the history of Islam you will find out many Christians priests were following Mohammed and jews too by thier own because they knew at that time that a new Prophet will come but most of them didn't believe which is *normal* as the jews didn't believe Jesus (PBUH) when God sent him to them.

Mohammed didn't honor only Jesus but all Prophets who have been sent by God.

You can have a look at one of my threads that proof Jesus told his followers about the next Prophet after him "Mohammed".

have a look here:
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19750


Peace ...

 

[TashaN]

That is true, mohammed is a false prophet.
To belive mohammed means disbeliving many of the prophets and the disciples of Jesus or those close to them, such as.



Isaiah(written 750BC)

Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. Isaiah 53:4-6​

Beliving mohammed means disbeliving the central theme of the whole new testiment, Jesus paid for your sins so you dont have too in hell, if you repent and trust in him. This theme of the atonement is supported by the many different writers of the bible, in the old testament there was the sacrificing of the spotless animals to pay for sin(which was just a forrunner for the atoning sacrifice Jesus made), and in the new testament direct references are made to the atonment Jesus made for those willing to accept him.

This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished- he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. Romans 3:22-26


​

Hebrews 9 talks about this issue, by contrasting the old covenant to the new.

He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption. The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God! For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.


In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood. When Moses had proclaimed every commandment of the law to all the people, he took the blood of calves, together with water, scarlet wool and branches of hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll and all the people. He said, "This is the blood of the covenant, which God has commanded you to keep." In the same way, he sprinkled with the blood both the tabernacle and everything used in its ceremonies. In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

It was necessary, then, for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ did not enter a man-made sanctuary that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God's presence. Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him. Hebrews 9:12-28



​

From a objective view why would someone belive one mans message over the central message of the many who were there or close to those who were? As blueman said quite well.

O.K. I believe Jesus ( PBUH ) because it's a main part of Islam but i don't trust the unknown writers of the bible and ofcourse i don't trust Paul.

If you want to argue so show me where did Jesus talk about terms such as:

1-Trinity.
2-Salvation.
3-orginal sin.
4-Jesus saying "I'm God" >> "worship me"

We were discussing these things in many threads in RF but we didn't reach to no excat clear point about it and you can check these threads whether in the Biblical Debate or the General Religious Debate.

So, i used to say God said and Prophet Mohamed said so you should tell me excatly where Jesus said so because Jesus also said that some of his disciples will lie at him and to lie about what he teach.


Peace ...

 

[blueman]

Bear in mind that many Jews still see Jesus as a false prophet.

You are absolutely right. But what they grossly overlook is that Jesus met all the Messianic prophecies referenced in the Old Testament and Jewish Talmud. What are the odds of that? Aside from Jesus, no one else has even come close!

 

[nutshell]

Mohammed seems to want to challenge but he wasn't doing so because it has nothing to do with christianity but Mohammed (PBUH) came to the whole world till the Judgment day.

If you have gone through the history of Islam you will find out many Christians priests were following Mohammed and jews too by thier own because they knew at that time that a new Prophet will come but most of them didn't believe which is *normal* as the jews didn't believe Jesus (PBUH) when God sent him to them.

Mohammed didn't honor only Jesus but all Prophets who have been sent by God.

You can have a look at one of my threads that proof Jesus told his followers about the next Prophet after him "Mohammed".

have a look here:
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19750


Peace ...

That scripture doesn't prove anything. You've given your own analysis based on your interpretation, but Christians can just as easily give their interpretation to "prove" it was refering to Christ.

 

[nutshell]

excatly, and that's why Muslims always depends in the arabic *original* copy of Quran but there is no original bible you can check with if you misunderstood any term or event in the bible. So, according to you we can't depend 100% in any translated material because Everytime a text is translated (whether it's the Bible or Qu'ran) something may be lost or added because it is impossible to translate exactly from one language to the next..

Nevertheless, Muslims always depend in the orginal source of Quran in arabic so that's why there is no doubt they will never misunderstood the text.


you can find it in here.

http://www.islammessage.com/en/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=6


Peace ...

You make a good point about having the original Arabic available. In my religion (I'm LDS) we have original scripture too. It's called the Book of Mormon and through it we can learn and understand the plain and precious truths that have been altered in the Bible. Further, we believe in living prophets today to guide Christ's church. I think the combination of the Bible, Book of Mormon, and living prophets reveals the truth to us and keeps it clean from the interpretations of man.

 

[Bennettresearch]

Sorry Truth, no cigar.

To quote Deuteronomy 18:18 is over-reaching and far-fetched. I would quote Deuteronomy 13:1-4! You unfortunately have given validity to the question this thread poses. I am supposed to believe that Deuteronomy was talking about Mohammed and not Jesus? That Jesus is just a minor player in your religion? You are a dreamer of dreams to be so presumptuous as to submit that as any kind of proof.

 

[TashaN]

Sorry Truth, no cigar.

To quote Deuteronomy 18:18 is over-reaching and far-fetched. I would quote Deuteronomy 13:1-4! You unfortunately have given validity to the question this thread poses. I am supposed to believe that Deuteronomy was talking about Mohammed and not Jesus? That Jesus is just a minor player in your religion? You are a dreamer of dreams to be so presumptuous as to submit that as any kind of proof.

my friend Bennettresearch,

I have no idea why you are calling me so because i never claim somthing from my mind but i was just studying the verses only.

If i'm mistaken so i beg you to lead me to the truth and if you are so i'll try to study with you until we reach to fair point.

we have to know that all of us are human beings from Adam and Eve.

you can see for example this verse:

Matthew (21:43) “Therefore say I unto you, the kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”

to be fair we supposed to listen to experts on this issue so why don't you look at this link and after that we can examine it together if you want.

http://www.answering-christianity.com/deut18_18_silas_rebuttal.htm



Peace ...

 

[Yerda]

According to Jesus statement in the new testament of the bible, he, Jesus, states that all those that come after him stating something new that's not in the bible are false prophets and false christs.

Did he? That's convenient. Where did he say this, t3gah?

 

[Bennettresearch]

Truth,

you made the reference in Deuteronomy to be some kind of fact,
I challenged it. You did not back it up, so therefore I made a minor challenge of my own. Don't be so sensitive. I would not dream of saying that I have all of the answers for you and I work alone. We all are obligated to back up our contentions in here and it is likewise with you. I can poke holes all day in parts of the Bible because it was written by men. What I challenged you on was that it appears that Mohammed has usurped Jesus in your religion and quotes from Jewish scripture is supposed to acheive that end. The burden is on you to give me conclusive proof of this far-fetched notion.

 

[lilithu]

Umm.... your very question is loaded and inflamatory. It presumes the answer to the question it's supposedly asking. It's the equivalent of asking "Was Jesus, a man who claimed to be god, a false god?" Actually, it's even worse than that because Jesus could have just been delusional whereas you're actually acusing Mohammed of lying.

What is the point of these threads??! And I'm not just talking about yours, t3gah, but all of these "debates" that rest on the whether or not people actually believe the cited scripture is the inerrant word of God. Do you really believe you're going to convince anyone who doesn't already agree with you?

It's not even a real debate. A debate is based on two parties agreeing on a shared reference point and each arguing that their position is the logical conclusion from that shared reference point. All this boils down to is:

"What's written in the Bible is true because the Bible says it's true."

"No, what's written in the Qur'an is true because the Qur'an says it's true.

"No, you're wrong. What's written in the Bible is true because the Bible says it's true."

"No, you're the one that's wrong. What's written in the Qur'an is true because the Qur'an says it's true.

Arrrrrgggggghhhhhh!! :banghead3

 

[lilithu]

Mohammed professess that Jesus was only a prophet and was not cruxified, which is clearly in contrast with the Bible, specifically, the New Testament. Jesus clearly stated His deity throughout the New Testament Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John). Ask yourself this question and look at it from an objective point of view. In light of the contrasts that I mentioned earlier, are you more inclined to trust the writing of people who were witnesses to Christ's ministry, miracles, cruxifiction and resurrection and wrote about these facts during the lifetimes of those who witnessed these events and could clearly dispute them if they were false or inaccurate or would you believe to be more trustworthy of an illiterate man some 650 years later who entered a cave and claims to be approached by a spirit who choked into him the true word of Allah? This in light of the fact that there was not one witness to these events?

The gospels were not written by Jesus' apostles. They were written several decades after his death. They were second and third hand accounts, at best.

Ask yourself this question and look at it from an "objective" point of view: Are you more inclined to trust the faded recollections of aging men who had heard the story passed down some time years before or would you believe to be more trustworthy someone who got the story directly from God's angel?

No, I'm not arguing that the Qur'an is more trustworthy than the gospels; just trying to show how ridiculous this argument is.

 

[karmel19]

As a Baha'i I believe both Jesus and Muhammad are true and from God. The following quote will explain why:

In the Qur'an we read that Muhammad spoke to his followers, saying:

"Why do you not believe in Christ, and in the Gospel? Why will you not accept Moses and the Prophets, for surely the Bible is the Book of God? In truth, Moses was a sublime Prophet, and Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit. He came to the world through the Power of God, born of the Holy Spirit and of the Blessed Virgin Mary. Mary, His mother, was a saint from Heaven. She passed her days in the Temple at prayer and food was sent to her from above. Her father, Zacharias, came to her and asked her from whence the food came, and Mary made answer, "From on high." Surely God made Mary to be exalted above all other women."

This is what Muhammad taught His people concerning Jesus and Moses, and He reproached them for their lack of faith in these great Teachers, and taught them the lessons of truth and tolerance. Muhammad was sent from God to work among a people as savage and uncivilized as the wild beasts. They were quite devoid of understanding, nor had they any feelings of love, sympathy, and pity. Women were so degraded and despised that a man could bury his daughter alive, and he had as many wives to be his slaves as he chose.

Among these half animal people Muhammad was sent with His divine Message. He taught the people that idol worship was wrong, but that they should reverence Christ, Moses, and the Prophets. Under His influence they became a more enlightened and civilized people and arose from the degraded state in which He found them. Was not this a good work, and worthy of all praise, respect and love?

Look at the Gospel of the Lord Christ and see how glorious it is! Yet even today men fail to understand its priceless beauty, and misinterpret its words of wisdom.

Christ forbade war! When the disciple Peter, thinking to defend his Lord, cut off the ear of the servant of the High Priest, Christ said to him: "Put up thy sword into the sheath." (John 18:11) Yet, in spite of the direct command of the Lord they profess to serve--men still dispute, make war, and kill one another, and His counsels and teaching seem quite forgotten.

But do not therefore attribute to the Masters and Prophets the evil deeds of their followers. If the priests, teachers and people, lead lives which are contrary to the religion that they profess to follow, is that the fault of Christ or the other Teachers?

The people of Islam were taught to realize how Jesus came from God and was born of the Spirit, and that He must be glorified of all men. Moses was a prophet of God, and revealed in His day and for the people to whom He was sent, the Book of God.

Muhammad recognized the sublime grandeur of Christ and the greatness of Moses and the Prophets. If only the whole world would acknowledge the greatness of Muhammad and all the Heaven-sent Teachers, strife and discord would soon vanish from the face of the earth, and God's Kingdom would come among men.

The people of Islam who glorify Christ are not humiliated by so doing.

Christ was the Prophet of the Christians, Moses of the Jews--why should not the followers of each prophet recognize and honour the other prophets also? If men could only learn the lesson of mutual tolerance, understanding, and brotherly love, the unity of the world would soon be an established fact.

Baha'u'llah spent His life teaching this lesson of Love and Unity. Let us then put away from us all prejudice and intolerance, and strive with all our hearts and souls to bring about understanding and unity . . .

--'Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, pp. 47-49

 

[lilithu]

T3gah, or anyone else, what qualifies one to be a false prophet? Are there parameters or constraints that can be used to measure one as a true or false prophet?

A prophet is one who is chosen by God to speak God's word to God's people. If one claims to have been chosen by God but was not, one is a false prophet even if one's words are consistent with God's word. If one speaks one's own words instead of God's, then one is a false prophet even if one was chosen. etc.

In this case, t3gah, in his very question is implying that Mohammed is a false prophet by claiming that Mohammed penned the Qur'an. According to Islam, the Qur'an has existed since the beginning. It is the eternal living word of God, not just a record of things that happened.** Mohammed was called to "Recite!", to read what was already written by God. Mohammed then faithfully recited these words to his people and someone else wrote them down.


**As the living word of God, the Qur'an is more holy to a Muslim than the bible is to a Christian (so imagine what it meant to have it thrown in a toilet!). The nearest analogy would be the Qur'an is to a Muslim what Christ is to a Christian. To say that the Qur'an was penned by a man would be like denying the miracle of the virgin birth and saying that Mary got knocked-up out of wedlock and then claimed to be carrying God's child.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

Truth,

you made the reference in Deuteronomy to be some kind of fact,
I challenged it. You did not back it up, so therefore I made a minor challenge of my own. Don't be so sensitive. I would not dream of saying that I have all of the answers for you and I work alone. We all are obligated to back up our contentions in here and it is likewise with you. I can poke holes all day in parts of the Bible because it was written by men. What I challenged you on was that it appears that Mohammed has usurped Jesus in your religion and quotes from Jewish scripture is supposed to acheive that end. The burden is on you to give me conclusive proof of this far-fetched notion.

Allah tells us there is no difference between any of the prophets they are all the same because they all came with the same message. It is just Mohammed is the successor to Christ he came after him.

 

[Radar]

Mohammed didn't pen anything. He was illiterate, so he could not read or write. His scribes compiled and wrote the Koran after his death.

 

[Radar]

Isn't it amazing none of the so called prophets wrote any of their books... Things that make you go HHHHHHMMMMMMM????

 

[lilithu]

What I challenged you on was that it appears that Mohammed has usurped Jesus in your religion and quotes from Jewish scripture is supposed to acheive that end. The burden is on you to give me conclusive proof of this far-fetched notion.

I confess to not knowing which quotes and claims are in question, but I doubt that the Truth meant to say that Mohammed "usurped" Jesus. First, please remember that Muslims do not believe that Jesus was/is God. Therefore, they certainly don't see Mohammed as taking glory that we would otherwise give to God. As Mujahid Mohammed said, Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet in a long line of prophets, dating back to Adam, and Mohammed simply came after Jesus, and is the last one. Muslims believe that Mohammed did not contradict anything that Jesus said. Jesus was a true and faithful prophet of God and Muslims hold him in very high esteem (see below). But they believe that his message got corrupted by his followers after his death, that Jesus never claimed to be God, that his real message was to serve God. They believe that the gospels reflect that corrupted understanding of God's word and was spreading it. So Mohammed was chosen to fix that.

Allah tells us there is no difference between any of the prophets they are all the same because they all came with the same message. It is just Mohammed is the successor to Christ he came after him.

It is not my understanding of Islam that all the prophets are "the same." My understanding is that in some ways, Jesus is "higher" than Mohammed. Jesus was born of a virgin. Of all of the long line of prophets, only Adam and Jesus were made directly by the hands of God. All of the others, like all humans, come from the natural method of procreation that God put in place with Adam. Jesus was made directly by God; Jesus served God faithfully and was taken up by God directly into heaven (not crucified); and Jesus will come again to sit in judgement. My understanding is that Jesus is exhalted amongst the prophets, he's just not God.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

I confess to not knowing which quotes and claims are in question, but I doubt that the Truth meant to say that Mohammed "usurped" Jesus. First, please remember that Muslims do not believe that Jesus was/is God. Therefore, they certainly don't see Mohammed as taking glory that we would otherwise give to God. As Mujahid Mohammed said, Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet in a long line of prophets, dating back to Adam, and Mohammed simply came after Jesus, and is the last one. Muslims believe that Mohammed did not contradict anything that Jesus said. Jesus was a true and faithful prophet of God and Muslims hold him in very high esteem (see below). But they believe that his message got corrupted by his followers after his death, that Jesus never claimed to be God, that his real message was to serve God. They believe that the gospels reflect that corrupted understanding of God's word and was spreading it. So Mohammed was chosen to fix that.

This is true. I think he meant Mohammed came after Jesus and not usurped.

It is not my understanding of Islam that all the prophets are "the same." My understanding is that in some ways, Jesus is "higher" than Mohammed. Jesus was born of a virgin. Of all of the long line of prophets, only Adam and Jesus were made directly by the hands of God. All of the others, like all humans, come from the natural method of procreation that God put in place with Adam. Jesus was made directly by God; Jesus served God faithfully and was taken up by God directly into heaven (not crucified); and Jesus will come again to sit in judgement. My understanding is that Jesus is exhalted amongst the prophets, he's just not God.

Allah says they are all the same. They are all men because we are all created with the will of God. Jesus's birth was just a sign he was a man of God. And Jesus was born unlike Adam. The verse says the creation of Adam is the similitude of Jesus Allah said be and he became so it is from the eternally powerful will of God he came into existence. Jesus was born like all men. He was a baby and was suckled by his mother like everyone except Adam. Adam was created into his full image. He was created as a man. The similitude of the Creations is that it is very easy for the Creator to create. All he says is be and it became howsoever he willed.