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Was Mohammed who penned the koran (quran) a false prophet?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by t3gah, Sep 4, 2005.

  1. Ori

    Ori Angel slayer

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    Bear in mind that many Jews still see Jesus as a false prophet.
     
  2. TashaN

    TashaN Veteran Member
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    Mohammed seems to want to challenge but he wasn't doing so because it has nothing to do with christianity but Mohammed (PBUH) came to the whole world till the Judgment day.

    If you have gone through the history of Islam you will find out many Christians priests were following Mohammed and jews too by thier own because they knew at that time that a new Prophet will come but most of them didn't believe which is *normal* as the jews didn't believe Jesus (PBUH) when God sent him to them.

    Mohammed didn't honor only Jesus but all Prophets who have been sent by God.

    You can have a look at one of my threads that proof Jesus told his followers about the next Prophet after him "Mohammed".

    have a look here:
    http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19750


    Peace ... :)
     
  3. TashaN

    TashaN Veteran Member
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    O.K. I believe Jesus ( PBUH ) because it's a main part of Islam but i don't trust the unknown writers of the bible and ofcourse i don't trust Paul.

    If you want to argue so show me where did Jesus talk about terms such as:

    1-Trinity.
    2-Salvation.
    3-orginal sin.
    4-Jesus saying "I'm God" >> "worship me"

    We were discussing these things in many threads in RF but we didn't reach to no excat clear point about it and you can check these threads whether in the Biblical Debate or the General Religious Debate.

    So, i used to say God said and Prophet Mohamed said so you should tell me excatly where Jesus said so because Jesus also said that some of his disciples will lie at him and to lie about what he teach.


    Peace ... :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. blueman

    blueman God's Warrior

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    You are absolutely right. But what they grossly overlook is that Jesus met all the Messianic prophecies referenced in the Old Testament and Jewish Talmud. What are the odds of that? Aside from Jesus, no one else has even come close!:)
     
  5. nutshell

    nutshell Well-Known Member

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    That scripture doesn't prove anything. You've given your own analysis based on your interpretation, but Christians can just as easily give their interpretation to "prove" it was refering to Christ.
     
  6. nutshell

    nutshell Well-Known Member

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    You make a good point about having the original Arabic available. In my religion (I'm LDS) we have original scripture too. It's called the Book of Mormon and through it we can learn and understand the plain and precious truths that have been altered in the Bible. Further, we believe in living prophets today to guide Christ's church. I think the combination of the Bible, Book of Mormon, and living prophets reveals the truth to us and keeps it clean from the interpretations of man.
     
  7. Bennettresearch

    Bennettresearch Politically Incorrect

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    Sorry Truth, no cigar.

    To quote Deuteronomy 18:18 is over-reaching and far-fetched. I would quote Deuteronomy 13:1-4! You unfortunately have given validity to the question this thread poses. I am supposed to believe that Deuteronomy was talking about Mohammed and not Jesus? That Jesus is just a minor player in your religion? You are a dreamer of dreams to be so presumptuous as to submit that as any kind of proof.
     
  8. TashaN

    TashaN Veteran Member
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    my friend Bennettresearch,

    I have no idea why you are calling me so because i never claim somthing from my mind but i was just studying the verses only.

    If i'm mistaken so i beg you to lead me to the truth and if you are so i'll try to study with you until we reach to fair point.

    we have to know that all of us are human beings from Adam and Eve.

    you can see for example this verse:

    Matthew (21:43) “Therefore say I unto you, the kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”

    to be fair we supposed to listen to experts on this issue so why don't you look at this link and after that we can examine it together if you want.

    http://www.answering-christianity.com/deut18_18_silas_rebuttal.htm



    Peace ... :)
     
  9. Jaiket

    Jaiket Well-Known Member

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    Did he? That's convenient. Where did he say this, t3gah?
     
  10. Bennettresearch

    Bennettresearch Politically Incorrect

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    Truth,

    you made the reference in Deuteronomy to be some kind of fact,
    I challenged it. You did not back it up, so therefore I made a minor challenge of my own. Don't be so sensitive. I would not dream of saying that I have all of the answers for you and I work alone. We all are obligated to back up our contentions in here and it is likewise with you. I can poke holes all day in parts of the Bible because it was written by men. What I challenged you on was that it appears that Mohammed has usurped Jesus in your religion and quotes from Jewish scripture is supposed to acheive that end. The burden is on you to give me conclusive proof of this far-fetched notion.
     
  11. lilithu

    lilithu The Devil's Advocate

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    Umm.... your very question is loaded and inflamatory. It presumes the answer to the question it's supposedly asking. It's the equivalent of asking "Was Jesus, a man who claimed to be god, a false god?" Actually, it's even worse than that because Jesus could have just been delusional whereas you're actually acusing Mohammed of lying.

    What is the point of these threads??! And I'm not just talking about yours, t3gah, but all of these "debates" that rest on the whether or not people actually believe the cited scripture is the inerrant word of God. Do you really believe you're going to convince anyone who doesn't already agree with you?

    It's not even a real debate. A debate is based on two parties agreeing on a shared reference point and each arguing that their position is the logical conclusion from that shared reference point. All this boils down to is:


    "What's written in the Bible is true because the Bible says it's true."

    "No, what's written in the Qur'an is true because the Qur'an says it's true.

    "No, you're wrong. What's written in the Bible is true because the Bible says it's true."

    "No, you're the one that's wrong. What's written in the Qur'an is true because the Qur'an says it's true.

    Arrrrrgggggghhhhhh!! :banghead3
     
  12. lilithu

    lilithu The Devil's Advocate

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    The gospels were not written by Jesus' apostles. They were written several decades after his death. They were second and third hand accounts, at best.

    Ask yourself this question and look at it from an "objective" point of view: :rolleyes: Are you more inclined to trust the faded recollections of aging men who had heard the story passed down some time years before or would you believe to be more trustworthy someone who got the story directly from God's angel?

    No, I'm not arguing that the Qur'an is more trustworthy than the gospels; just trying to show how ridiculous this argument is.
     
  13. karmel19

    karmel19 New Member

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    As a Baha'i I believe both Jesus and Muhammad are true and from God. The following quote will explain why:

    --'Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, pp. 47-49
     
  14. lilithu

    lilithu The Devil's Advocate

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    A prophet is one who is chosen by God to speak God's word to God's people. If one claims to have been chosen by God but was not, one is a false prophet even if one's words are consistent with God's word. If one speaks one's own words instead of God's, then one is a false prophet even if one was chosen. etc.

    In this case, t3gah, in his very question is implying that Mohammed is a false prophet by claiming that Mohammed penned the Qur'an. According to Islam, the Qur'an has existed since the beginning. It is the eternal living word of God, not just a record of things that happened.** Mohammed was called to "Recite!", to read what was already written by God. Mohammed then faithfully recited these words to his people and someone else wrote them down.


    **As the living word of God, the Qur'an is more holy to a Muslim than the bible is to a Christian (so imagine what it meant to have it thrown in a toilet!). The nearest analogy would be the Qur'an is to a Muslim what Christ is to a Christian. To say that the Qur'an was penned by a man would be like denying the miracle of the virgin birth and saying that Mary got knocked-up out of wedlock and then claimed to be carrying God's child.
     
  15. Mujahid Mohammed

    Mujahid Mohammed Well-Known Member

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    Allah tells us there is no difference between any of the prophets they are all the same because they all came with the same message. It is just Mohammed is the successor to Christ he came after him.
     
  16. Radar

    Radar Active Member

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    Mohammed didn't pen anything. He was illiterate, so he could not read or write. His scribes compiled and wrote the Koran after his death.
     
  17. Radar

    Radar Active Member

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    Isn't it amazing none of the so called prophets wrote any of their books... Things that make you go HHHHHHMMMMMMM????
     
  18. lilithu

    lilithu The Devil's Advocate

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    I confess to not knowing which quotes and claims are in question, but I doubt that the Truth meant to say that Mohammed "usurped" Jesus. First, please remember that Muslims do not believe that Jesus was/is God. Therefore, they certainly don't see Mohammed as taking glory that we would otherwise give to God. As Mujahid Mohammed said, Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet in a long line of prophets, dating back to Adam, and Mohammed simply came after Jesus, and is the last one. Muslims believe that Mohammed did not contradict anything that Jesus said. Jesus was a true and faithful prophet of God and Muslims hold him in very high esteem (see below). But they believe that his message got corrupted by his followers after his death, that Jesus never claimed to be God, that his real message was to serve God. They believe that the gospels reflect that corrupted understanding of God's word and was spreading it. So Mohammed was chosen to fix that.

    It is not my understanding of Islam that all the prophets are "the same." My understanding is that in some ways, Jesus is "higher" than Mohammed. Jesus was born of a virgin. Of all of the long line of prophets, only Adam and Jesus were made directly by the hands of God. All of the others, like all humans, come from the natural method of procreation that God put in place with Adam. Jesus was made directly by God; Jesus served God faithfully and was taken up by God directly into heaven (not crucified); and Jesus will come again to sit in judgement. My understanding is that Jesus is exhalted amongst the prophets, he's just not God.
     
  19. Mujahid Mohammed

    Mujahid Mohammed Well-Known Member

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    This is true. I think he meant Mohammed came after Jesus and not usurped.

    Allah says they are all the same. They are all men because we are all created with the will of God. Jesus's birth was just a sign he was a man of God. And Jesus was born unlike Adam. The verse says the creation of Adam is the similitude of Jesus Allah said be and he became so it is from the eternally powerful will of God he came into existence. Jesus was born like all men. He was a baby and was suckled by his mother like everyone except Adam. Adam was created into his full image. He was created as a man. The similitude of the Creations is that it is very easy for the Creator to create. All he says is be and it became howsoever he willed.
     
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