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Was Mohammed who penned the koran (quran) a false prophet?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by t3gah, Sep 4, 2005.

  1. t3gah

    t3gah Well-Known Member

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    According to Jesus statement in the new testament of the bible, he, Jesus, states that all those that come after him stating something new that's not in the bible are false prophets and false christs. which means that the mohammed of the koran (quran) is a false prophet and an antichrist because he's taught people a different way that what christianity teaches.

    Is that so or not?

    To me the answer is "yes". But then again the bible goes on to state that all those who have jobs that are not serving the christian disciples completely, are homeless, except for a tent, stay at other peoples homes, speak in other peoples meeting places and travel to every city there is wearing every day plain clothes, and don't go back to each place that says "go away" are not real Christians at all. Which goes against some other texts that show that the tent makers had a home. But I'll get to that in another thread.
     
  2. Bennettresearch

    Bennettresearch Politically Incorrect

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    Hi T3gah,
    Even though this subject is extremely interesting, it is very inflammatory. One cannot examine this from a Christiocentric viewpoint. One has to look at it from an outside perspective. My interactions with some muslims is that their religion is very competitive, which is the genesis of the writings of Mohammed. WE, as Christians, are very tolerant of other beliefs. I can't bring myself to make pre-emtive statements that critique another religion unless I am being challenged about my own.
     
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  3. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Quite......not in good taste.:mad:
     
  4. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    One might argue that it should not be in the Discuss Individual Religions forum..... :)
     
  5. john313

    john313 warrior-poet

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    you are assuming that all of the teachings of Jesus are included in the bible. if the original book of Adam exists and it says something that is not in the bible, does that mean Adam is an anti christ? or is there maybe something that is not included in the bible. also, do you know where this quote from Jesus is located in the bible?
     
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  6. Mujahid Mohammed

    Mujahid Mohammed Well-Known Member

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    So what did he say that contradicted Jesus(pbuh) Jesus says God is one. so did Mohammed. Mohammed says that Jesus was born miraculously so does the bible. I guess the question i am asking is what do you really know about Islam or Mohammed and the things he has said or what the Qur'an says.
     
  7. blueman

    blueman God's Warrior

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    Mohammed professess that Jesus was only a prophet and was not cruxified, which is clearly in contrast with the Bible, specifically, the New Testament. Jesus clearly stated His deity throughout the New Testament Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John). Ask yourself this question and look at it from an objective point of view. In light of the contrasts that I mentioned earlier, are you more inclined to trust the writing of people who were witnesses to Christ's ministry, miracles, cruxifiction and resurrection and wrote about these facts during the lifetimes of those who witnessed these events and could clearly dispute them if they were false or inaccurate or would you believe to be more trustworthy of an illiterate man some 650 years later who entered a cave and claims to be approached by a spirit who choked into him the true word of Allah? This in light of the fact that there was not one witness to these events?:)
     
  8. Green Gaia

    Green Gaia Veteran Member

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    Moved to debates.
     
  9. TashaN

    TashaN Veteran Member
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    and ask yourself too do you believe someone (Paul) who claim that Jesus came as a light and he ordered him to spread christianity or do you believe that normal people after Jesus may be inspired by God?

    We can't be sure whether the muslims are right or the christians are right and both of them think they are right.

    How can you decide what is wrong and what is right?

    It's not fair to see your faith for example true without evidence that may be fair for both of these religions isn't it?

    not from one side only.


    Peace ... :)
     
  10. robtex

    robtex Veteran Member

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    T3gah, or anyone else, what qualifies one to be a false prophet? Are there parameters or constraints that can be used to measure one as a true or false prophet?
     
  11. blueman

    blueman God's Warrior

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    I raised a very valid question that was put on the table in this debate forum and made made reference to compelling reasoning as to why I and other Christians believe the New Testament Gospels as authentic and a true account of what happened. This was validated through eyewitness accounts during the lifetimes of those who witnessed said events. In addition, corroborating evidence is also supported in source material outside of the Bible through 1st century Jewish historian Josephus and Roman historian Tacitus and also in the Jewish Talmud (although they make reference to Jesus in a very negative fashion, they acknowledged His awesome power and miracles). If you look at it objectively, it is extremely compelling and valid testimony. :)
     
  12. TashaN

    TashaN Veteran Member
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    ok i'll ask you a simple question?

    Do you believe more Jesus or his followers?
     
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  13. blueman

    blueman God's Warrior

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    First of all, I put my trust in Jesus. Secondly, I believe the accounts of the New Testament Gospels as authentic. What did these folks have to gain by promulgating that Jesus Christ was Lord and Saviour, the only Begotten Son of God? A date with death is all that was waiting for them. I don't know about you, but if I knew that what I was preaching was a lie, fairy tale or whatever you want to call it, I would not be willing to put my life on the line for it. 10 of the 11 disciples were slaughtered to death. There must have been a compelling reason as to why they were willling to put themselves in harm's way as a result of their beliefs. :)
     
  14. TashaN

    TashaN Veteran Member
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    Then, Why the bible still changing till now but they never touch Quran or change even a word in it?
     
  15. nutshell

    nutshell Well-Known Member

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    The Qu'ran has been changed. It was originally never supposed to be in any language but Arabic. That changed when it was first translated into Turkish and now you can find it in any language. Everytime a text is translated (whether it's the Bible or Qu'ran) something may be lost or added because it is impossible to translate exactly from one language to the next.

    That said, I took a History of the Middle East class recently and was surprised to see Muhammad's original teachings. I believe they were:

    1. There is only one god (Allah) who is creator and master of the universe
    2. Muhammad is his prophet
    3. Those with means should help the poor
    4. People should be good to each other

    I think there was one more. Maybe someone who is Muslim can clarify for me.
     
  16. blueman

    blueman God's Warrior

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    I really don't see your point? Although the Bible has been translated into other languages and more modern text versions (for example NIV version is more modern than King James text) for the lay man to understand the message, the material doctrine that they were teaching in 1st century Palenstine related to the New Testament Gospels has not changed materially one bit. It's framework is the message that:

    (1) Jesus was God in the flesh incarnated to die for the sins of mankind
    (2) He ministered, served and taught multitudes of people
    (3) He performed many miracles
    (4) He was crucified by the Roman government and soldiers
    (5) He resurrected from the dead and lives today

    Those are the basic tenants of ancient and modern Christianity today, with no ambuguity. What they were preaching, teaching and died for in 1st century Palestine is what is being taught throughout the world today.
     
  17. Bennettresearch

    Bennettresearch Politically Incorrect

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    Truth, you puzzle me.:sarcastic

    At one point I wanted to applaud your objectivity, at another I find you combative which isn't entirely a surprise since this thread challenges Mohammed. I think that it is obvious that you are inclined towards Islam and not Christianity.

    I have some questions about Jesus in the Quran. Mohammed seems to want to challenge Christianity and then again adopt Jesus into the fold. This is a contradiction no matter how many nice things he says about Jesus. I think the point you have missed is that even though some Christians may think that the story in the Gospels may be "colored", the essence of Jesus and His importance still remains. There can be no resolution for Christians on Islam because Jesus is the one and will not play second fiddle to another religion.;)
     
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  18. Steve

    Steve Active Member

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    That is true, mohammed is a false prophet.
    To belive mohammed means disbeliving many of the prophets and the disciples of Jesus or those close to them, such as.

    Isaiah(written 750BC)
    Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. Isaiah 53:4-6
    Beliving mohammed means disbeliving the central theme of the whole new testiment, Jesus paid for your sins so you dont have too in hell, if you repent and trust in him. This theme of the atonement is supported by the many different writers of the bible, in the old testament there was the sacrificing of the spotless animals to pay for sin(which was just a forrunner for the atoning sacrifice Jesus made), and in the new testament direct references are made to the atonment Jesus made for those willing to accept him.
    This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished- he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. Romans 3:22-26
    Hebrews 9 talks about this issue, by contrasting the old covenant to the new.

    He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption. The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God! For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance┬Śnow that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

    In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood. When Moses had proclaimed every commandment of the law to all the people, he took the blood of calves, together with water, scarlet wool and branches of hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll and all the people. He said, "This is the blood of the covenant, which God has commanded you to keep." In the same way, he sprinkled with the blood both the tabernacle and everything used in its ceremonies. In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

    It was necessary, then, for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ did not enter a man-made sanctuary that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God's presence. Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him. Hebrews 9:12-28


    From a objective view why would someone belive one mans message over the central message of the many who were there or close to those who were? As blueman said quite well.
     
  19. TashaN

    TashaN Veteran Member
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    excatly, and that's why Muslims always depends in the arabic *original* copy of Quran but there is no original bible you can check with if you misunderstood any term or event in the bible. So, according to you we can't depend 100% in any translated material because Everytime a text is translated (whether it's the Bible or Qu'ran) something may be lost or added because it is impossible to translate exactly from one language to the next..

    Nevertheless, Muslims always depend in the orginal source of Quran in arabic so that's why there is no doubt they will never misunderstood the text.

    you can find it in here.

    http://www.islammessage.com/en/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=6


    Peace ... :)
     
  20. TashaN

    TashaN Veteran Member
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    I'll use a quote that is not for me but for Fatmop who was trying to make you understand but i'll remind you of his words.

    Peace .. :)
     
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