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Was Jesus Sinless?

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
He wasn't. I know that technically here he is teaching how to pray, but yes, he sinned quite a bit, even breaking the Big Ten at certain points.
Not really... he was clarifying the Big Ten.

What verse says he was a carpenter? Where is he ever shown "carpenting"? :)
I suppose you really weren't interested. A simple google would say, speaking of Jesus, " Isn’t this the carpenter? Isn’t this Mary’s son and the brother of James, Joseph, Judas and Simon? Aren’t his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him."

He ran off without telling them and never even called his mother "mom" or whatever. Joseph disappears from the story shortly after the running away incident. I wonder if he actually just went ahead and divorced Mary like he said he would. It's clear the sons were taking care of her ... except Jesus, who went bumming around the region like he was on a pokemon journey collecting people. He has really nothing good to say about families and promotes destroying them. He clearly has issues regarding families in general and parenting in particular, being one of the few who didn't turn away kids from listening to him (at least as written).
This sounds more like "I'm really not interested, so let me just rant a little" :D
 
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Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Nope, didn't happen.

Ya know why?

Corn didn't come from the Middle East.

But "corn" is an old English word that actually means "grain".

:D

:mad: Just who do you think you are... Jewish? :D

Just when I thought I knew everything! :rolleyes:
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Then how do you explain his inappropriate behaviour towards the Canaanite women, if someone had treated you like that would you not call it abusive behaviour ?
Actually, it wasn't "inappropriate" if you understand the intent of Jesus. Notice that her child was healed... that was what Jesus was shooting for and got it!
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Why are you defending that Jesus was sinless when clearly he wasn't. All you have done is justify his behaviour. Its ok to be abusive towards women because everyone in the culture does it. That doesnt make it right.

REALLY !...........
In the analogy you're using, I don't see harm. The jews thought they were God's chosen people, but obviously dogs and humans eat from the same source. Jesus acknowledged her self-worth. He may have been testing her ability to be humble and still deserving.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
so then sin is possible for someone who isn't all knowing. there are two types of sin. sin from willful harm and sin from ignorance.


willful harm would be likened to intent and planning. sin from ignorance is harm that was not intentionally planned.

case in point,

peter plans to rob paul and does. that is willful intention.
peter is driving drunk and hits paul. he had no intention of hitting paul but obviously he was impaired and didn't take precaution for unforeseen circumstances.
and there are two levels of ignorance

they who have not been told......are ignorant
they who choose to ignore.....are profoundly ignorant
no cure

are you attempting to accuse the Carpenter of a sin?
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
In the analogy you're using, I don't see harm. The jews thought they were God's chosen people, but obviously dogs and humans eat from the same source. Jesus acknowledged her self-worth. He may have been testing her ability to be humble and still deserving.
and the woman said......even the dogs have scraps from the table of the Children

the Carpenter then granted her request
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
and there are two levels of ignorance

they who have not been told......are ignorant
they who choose to ignore.....are profoundly ignorant
no cure

are you attempting to accuse the Carpenter of a sin?
no, i'm stating that the rules apply to everyone equally. it's not about the personality. it's about the behavior.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
Can a mortal be without sin?

Why did Jesus pray to the Father; if he was sinless?

Matthew 6:9-13

"This, then, is how you should pray: "'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us today our daily bread. Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.

That was Jesus telling how we should pray. It doesn’t tell was Jesus sinner. And I believe Jesus was not sinner, he didn't reject God.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
no, i'm stating that the rules apply to everyone equally. it's not about the personality. it's about the behavior.
hmmmm.....

and the parables He told seem to center on behavior

so if He was a sinner (and most believers don't think so)
and He told stories of behavior above His own performance.....

what does that make Him?

a hypocrite?
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
hmmmm.....

and the parables He told seem to center on behavior

so if He was a sinner (and most believers don't think so)
and He told stories of behavior above His own performance.....

what does that make Him?

a hypocrite?
no, i'm stating that a person who doesn't recognize their fallibility and learn from their mistakes are doomed to repeat it. when a human comes into this incarnation, their soul is susceptible to degenerate; if they become fixated on the illusion of permanency in forms. he was tempted for a purpose. he fell once as adam who was without sin. its the chance all higher beings take in incarnating in this density. we can't be fully human; if we are unenlightened to the shadow the form creates.


some souls, boddhisatvas, return to uplift their brothers and sisters but they too can become entrapped in the illusion. it's a risk for everyone. unconditional love doesn't play favorites.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
no, i'm stating that a person who doesn't recognize their fallibility and learn from their mistakes are doomed to repeat it. when a human comes into this incarnation, their soul is susceptible to degenerate; if they become fixated on the illusion of permanency in forms. he was tempted for a purpose. he fell once as adam who was without sin. its the chance all higher beings take in incarnating in this density. we can't be fully human; if we are unenlightened to the shadow the form creates.


some souls, boddhisatvas, return to uplift their brothers and sisters but they too can become entrapped in the illusion. it's a risk for everyone. unconditional love doesn't play favorites.
after His baptism He went straight to the wilderness......to be tempted

I suspect.....strongly
His baptism was a performance to a line drawn
sin no more
and the retreat to the wilderness.....a self imposed test
vulnerability in the face of the greatest threat

It seems He passed the test
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
after His baptism He went straight to the wilderness......to be tempted

I suspect.....strongly
His baptism was a performance to a line drawn
sin no more
and the retreat to the wilderness.....a self imposed test
vulnerability in the face of the greatest threat

It seems He passed the test
uh huh but a test is not final. we don't know that he wasn't tested throughout life and this was the final exam for graduation. its interesting that he placed himself under extreme duress for the test questions. people are poor test takers when they are physically and psychologically exhausted.

so yes, i'm with you. he passed that big test. he got the spiritual crown.

Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him


Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
 
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savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Can a mortal be without sin?

Why did Jesus pray to the Father; if he was sinless?

Matthew 6:9-13

"This, then, is how you should pray: "'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us today our daily bread. Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.
Jesus stands in for God's will be done. It is perfect. There is no sin in God's will be done. Never and always.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
then why say "our" and not "y-our"?
The NT notes the kingdom as Jesus's, at times, and 'God's', and in the prayer, as the Father's, 'thy kingdom come'. So it's either all three deific references, or the Bible is contradicting itself.
 
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