Was Jesus sent to be crucified?

[sojourner]

That is why crucifying another Jew like Jesus was not a big deal to them especially when the Jews themselves were calling for him to be crucified. Why the Jews chose Barabbas to be releases instead of Jesus when Pilate made the offer proves the total rejection of Jesus as their messiah. The fact the Jews today are not repentant of their role in Jesus's death an innocent Rabbi who tried to reform the Jewish religion, shows how meaningless their adherence to the prophets teachings and scriptures are and have always been.

bull crap! Remember, the gospels were written by Christians for Christians, as theological treatises. Of course they pointed the finger at Judaism. the Jews are just fine, and do not need "repentance" for "their part" in "killing Jesus."

 

[Harikrish]

bull crap! Remember, the gospels were written by Christians for Christians, as theological treatises. Of course they pointed the finger at Judaism. the Jews are just fine, and do not need "repentance" for "their part" in "killing Jesus."

You forget Isaiah spoke of the suffering saviour and Jesus was a fulfillment of his prophesy. Jesus quoted the old scriptures to remind the Jews his coming and mission was foretold. But the Jews never got the connection. Look where they are today, still awaiting their messiah?

 

[metis]

That is why crucifying another Jew like Jesus was not a big deal to them especially when the Jews themselves were calling for him to be crucified. Why the Jews chose Barabbas to be releases instead of Jesus when Pilate made the offer proves the total rejection of Jesus as their messiah. The fact the Jews today are not repentant of their role in Jesus's death an innocent Rabbi who tried to reform the Jewish religion, shows how meaningless their adherence to the prophets teachings and scriptures are and have always been.

The above is just fabricated and bigoted dribble, not worthy of a response beyond this. It's obvious that your "understanding" of even Christian theology is pretty much non-existent.

 

[Harikrish]

The above is just fabricated and bigoted dribble, not worthy of a response beyond this. It's obvious that your "understanding" of even Christian theology is pretty much non-existent.

The Jews have been trying to discredit Jesus as a messiah for over 2000 years. They are reduced to a minority view with just 14 million Jews compared to 2 billion Christians.

 

[metis]

News Flash! We were always a minority with the exception of Israel.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The Jews have been trying to discredit Jesus as a messiah for over 2000 years. They are reduced to a minority view with just 14 million Jews compared to 2 billion Christians.

And ignorant bigots, trying to pawn off Jesus as the messiah, were more than a little instrumental in this 'reduction.' Thanks for sharing ...

 

[Harikrish]

News Flash! We were always a minority with the exception of Israel.

The history of the Jewish people is full of examples of divine intervention to keep their numbers under control. The great flood, keeping them distracted for 40 years searching for the promise land, scattering them from Babylon so they have to start all over again, the destruction of their temple, further reduction of their numbers in Europe.

It is predicted the Palestinians will outnumber the Jews even in the Jewish homeland, Israel. Hard to believe the Jews once considered themselves the chosen people of God because they kept Abrahams covenant with God by performing circumcision. Even here they are outnumbered by Muslims who also perform circumcision.

 

[sojourner]

The history of the Jewish people is full of examples of divine intervention to keep their numbers under control. The great flood, keeping them distracted for 40 years searching for the promise land, scattering them from Babylon so they have to start all over again, the destruction of their temple, further reduction of their numbers in Europe.

It is predicted the Palestinians will outnumber the Jews even in the Jewish homeland, Israel. Hard to believe the Jews once considered themselves the chosen people of God because they kept Abrahams covenant with God by performing circumcision. Even here they are outnumbered by Muslims who also perform circumcision.

Jesus said, "You are the salt of the earth." And we all know what happens when you get too much salt in your food...

The flood happened before Judaism happened, so that's worthless to your argument. The journey to the Promised Land is metaphorical, and you simply don't get the theology implied in the story, so that's worthless to your argument, too.

the Jews are just fine and dandy in God's book. It's all the bigots that seem to want to dispose of them.

 

[Harikrish]

Jesus said, "You are the salt of the earth." And we all know what happens when you get too much salt in your food...

The flood happened before Judaism happened, so that's worthless to your argument. The journey to the Promised Land is metaphorical, and you simply don't get the theology implied in the story, so that's worthless to your argument, too.

the Jews are just fine and dandy in God's book. It's all the bigots that seem to want to dispose of them.

The Jews have been repeatedly punished by God both before and after they adopted Judaism. It is the nature of the Jews that displeased God. Read your bible.

 

[sojourner]

The Jews have been repeatedly punished by God both before and after they adopted Judaism. It is the nature of the Jews that displeased God. Read your bible.

Do you hear yourself??? The Jews... before they adopted Judaism. Ok. Jews are Jews because their religion is Judaism. People aren't Jews unless they adhere to Judaism. Therefore, the people before Judaism (like the people during the flood -- and even the Israelites in the desert) weren't Jews.

Please stop telling me to "read the bible." I've read it cover-to-cover, studied it, written papers on it, been invited to publish papers on it. It's obvious to the most brain-challenged idiot that you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to the bible. Just so we're clear on that.

 

[Harikrish]

Do you hear yourself??? The Jews... before they adopted Judaism. Ok. Jews are Jews because their religion is Judaism. People aren't Jews unless they adhere to Judaism. Therefore, the people before Judaism (like the people during the flood -- and even the Israelites in the desert) weren't Jews.

Please stop telling me to "read the bible." I've read it cover-to-cover, studied it, written papers on it, been invited to publish papers on it. It's obvious to the most brain-challenged idiot that you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to the bible. Just so we're clear on that.

Not true. Read your bible's genealogy.

Question: "When did the separation of humanity into Jews and Gentiles occur?"

Answer:Although there is no direct mention of the time when the Jews and Gentiles became separated, there are two primary lines of thought. First, some view the separation occurring with the descendants of Adam and Eve. According to this view, the chosen line of Seth was always separate from the rest of humanity. Therefore, Seth’s descendants were considered “Jews,” while the rest of humanity were considered Gentiles. Second, some view the separation of Jews and Gentiles as occurring with Abraham, when God formally chose Abraham to be the father of His chosen nation.

Seth was the third son of Adam. Abraham, Jesus etc. are all descendants of Seth and therefore considered 'Jews'.

 

[pearl]

Study your history (and your bible). John had a theological, not a historical agenda. Historically, only the Sanhedrin would apply a charge of "blasphemy." Rome had nothing to do with "blasphemy." Historically, the Sanhedrin didn't crucify people. But Rome did. The charge was, of course, trumped up, and it was insurrection.

If there were no "basis for a charge," there would have been no crucifixion. Therefore, a Roman charge was offered: insurrection, because they claimed Jesus claimed to be king.

Not only was John's Gospel high theology, the historical context is one of persecution. At the time of writing Christians had been excommunicated from the temple and cursed as heretics. No longer protected under the Jewish umbrella, the Christians of John's community were fair game for Roman persecution. What Christians have done in the past was to charge Jews collectively, for Jesus' death. If read carefully it becomes clear that He had many Jewish followers, the reason He had to be arrested under the cover of darkness. As for the 'crowd' who chose Barabbas these were Jews from all over gathered for Passover, they new Barabbas the zealot, they did not know Jesus. The messiah expected by the Jews was not a divinity, but an historical person who would restore Israel to its highest point in history, the time of David. What the Apostles preached and the evangelists wrote was with the insight of post Resurrection faith, guided by the Holy Spirit. The Jewish authorities wanted Jesus dead, like the prophets before him, He made things too uncomfortable, stirred things up.

 

[sojourner]

Not only was John's Gospel high theology, the historical context is one of persecution. At the time of writing Christians had been excommunicated from the temple and cursed as heretics. No longer protected under the Jewish umbrella, the Christians of John's community were fair game for Roman persecution. What Christians have done in the past was to charge Jews collectively, for Jesus' death. If read carefully it becomes clear that He had many Jewish followers, the reason He had to be arrested under the cover of darkness. As for the 'crowd' who chose Barabbas these were Jews from all over gathered for Passover, they new Barabbas the zealot, they did not know Jesus. The messiah expected by the Jews was not a divinity, but an historical person who would restore Israel to its highest point in history, the time of David. What the Apostles preached and the evangelists wrote was with the insight of post Resurrection faith, guided by the Holy Spirit. The Jewish authorities wanted Jesus dead, like the prophets before him, He made things too uncomfortable, stirred things up.

Ok, but you're conflating the theological thrust of the gospel with what we know about history. The plain fact is that Judaism did not engage in crucifixion. The plain fact was that Rome didn't do what the Jews wanted. The plain fact is that Rome couldn't have cared less if Jesus was a "blasphemer." The plain fact is that Rome crucified state criminals. In order to keep peace, Rome scapegoated Jesus with trumped-up charges and crucified him in order to keep the Sanhedrin pacified and from stirring up trouble. That's history. It doesn't matter that John wanted to make the Jews look bad.

 

[roger1440]

The Jews have been repeatedly punished by God both before and after they adopted Judaism. It is the nature of the Jews that displeased God. Read your bible.

Your understanding of scripture is beyond words. I don’t know what to say.

 

[Harikrish]

Not only was John's Gospel high theology, the historical context is one of persecution. At the time of writing Christians had been excommunicated from the temple and cursed as heretics. No longer protected under the Jewish umbrella, the Christians of John's community were fair game for Roman persecution. What Christians have done in the past was to charge Jews collectively, for Jesus' death. If read carefully it becomes clear that He had many Jewish followers, the reason He had to be arrested under the cover of darkness. As for the 'crowd' who chose Barabbas these were Jews from all over gathered for Passover, they new Barabbas the zealot, they did not know Jesus. The messiah expected by the Jews was not a divinity, but an historical person who would restore Israel to its highest point in history, the time of David. What the Apostles preached and the evangelists wrote was with the insight of post Resurrection faith, guided by the Holy Spirit. The Jewish authorities wanted Jesus dead, like the prophets before him, He made things too uncomfortable, stirred things up.

What you have left out was the betrayal of Jesus by Judas.

Luke 9:18 Once when Jesus was praying in private and his disciples were with him, he asked them, "Who do the crowds say I am?"
19 They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, that one of the prophets of long ago has come back to life."
20 "But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?" Peter answered, "The Christ of God."
21 Jesus strictly warned them not to tell this to anyone.

Only the disciples knew Jesus was claiming to be the Christ. Judas betrayed Jesus by revealing this information to the high priest which created the grounds for blasphemy.

 

[pearl]

Was Jesus sent to be crucified?


That is one, and seems the predominating reason for the Incarnation, one that presents an angry God demanding payment for sin. There is an alternative interpretation to 'why Jesus.?'
It holds that the whole purpose of creation is for the Incarnation, God's sharing of life and love, God becoming human is not an afterthought, a plan b, an event to make up for Original sin and human sinfulness. Incarnation is God's first thought, the original design for all creation. The purpose of Jesus' life is the fulfillment of God's eternal longing to become human. John's Gospel does not see Jesus' death as a ransom, nor is there the language of sacrifice, atonement. The emphasis is on intimacy, service, faithful love, revealing God's desire and gift for humanity, salvation. In John the crucifixion is the "hour" of glorification, not sacrifice but epiphany, the manifestation of God. For John the reality is a God who wants to share divine life.

The question, would the Son of God have become incarnate if humanity had not sinned? The answer from one philosopher, theologian, Thomas Aquinas was no, the Incarnation was a remedy for sin. The alternative view is presented by Franciscan John Duns Scotus, another philosopher and theologian. He based his view on the Scriptures and early theologians, and divine love. I once stated that formulations, dogmas, doctrine, are time conditioned. The Church originally condemned this theology of Scotus, he is now know as and given the title of Blessed John Scotus.
A few years ago there was a German Archbishop who found himself on the receiving end of conservative outrage. Bishop Zollitsch had stated that Christ "did not die for the sins of the people as if God had provided a sacrificial offering like a scapegoat." Instead, Jesus had offered only "solidarity" with the poor and suffering, that is this great perspective, this tremendous solidarity."

 

[Harikrish]

Nobody sent Jesus to be crucified. Jesus was the illegitimate son of Joseph a carpenter. He had no business meddling in religion. He was not a descendent from the line of David as prophesied. No one knew his real father.

But Jesus was delusional and believed he was the anointed one. He was tried, convicted and put to death for blasphemy, for being a false prophet.

Deuteronomy 18: 20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death."

 

[pearl]

Nobody sent Jesus to be crucified. Jesus was the illegitimate son of Joseph a carpenter. He had no business meddling in religion. He was not a descendent from the line of David as prophesied. No one knew his real father.

But Jesus was delusional and believed he was the anointed one. He was tried, convicted and put to death for blasphemy, for being a false prophet.

Deuteronomy 18: 20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death."

And you base this on what?

 

[Harikrish]

Harikrish said: ↑
Nobody sent Jesus to be crucified. Jesus was the illegitimate son of Joseph a carpenter. He had no business meddling in religion. He was not a descendent from the line of David as prophesied. No one knew his real father.

But Jesus was delusional and believed he was the anointed one. He was tried, convicted and put to death for blasphemy, for being a false prophet.

Deuteronomy 18: 20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death."

And you base this on what?

I based it on the scriptural facts we know that is supported by historical evidence.
1. Joseph was a carpenter in the Bible.
2. Jesus was his illegitimate son as mentioned in the Bible.
3. The genealogy of Joseph traces back to David. But Joseph's was not Jesus's biological father as mentioned in the Bible.
4. We know Jesus was crucified both from the bible and historical evidence.
5. We know Jesus was tried, convicted and put to death for blasphemy.
6. The Jews were ordered by God to kill false prophets and they put to death Jesus.
7. Why did Jesus think God sent him? Jesus suffered from the messiah complex and believed he was sent as the messiah. Today, he would be treated and not crucified for being delusional. God even picked the wrong time to send Jesus and that was why Jesus was crucified.

 

[metis]

Crucifixion was not a Jewish form of capital punishment, nor were "blasphemers" given the death penalty back during Jesus' time.