Was Jesus' Sacrifice Significant?

[bartdanr]

Hi All,

Was Jesus' sacrifice significant? What, if anything, did Jesus lose that he did not regain (and that fairly quickly--three days or 33 years; either way, a heartbeat of eternity)?

How would you make the case that Jesus' sacrifice (or God the Father's sacrifice of his son) was something significant?

Peace

 

[TashaN]

until now no body ever could prove ( for sure ) that Jesus sacrificed himself for the sake of ( us ) because he was trying to defend himself when the Roman soldiers were trying to catch him (giuded by jews) even thought we can't say God sacrificed his son because how cruel that would be and if h was just the father's flesh body as many claim so why God " the father" would sacrifice part of him once that he can simply forgive his children (us).

Therefore, i think the " sacrifice " fiction doesn't exist because there is nothing proof that God sent Jesus as a sheep for killing neither Jesus went to the Roman saying please crucify me to save my people.

So, if they crucify him out of his well and intention so it's not Significant at all.

 

[bartdanr]

until now no body ever could prove ( for sure ) that Jesus sacrificed himself for the sake of ( us ) because he was trying to defend himself when the Roman soldiers were trying to catch him (giuded by jews) even thought we can't say God sacrificed his son because how cruel that would be and if h was just the father's flesh body as many claim so why God " the father" would sacrifice part of him once that he can simply forgive his children (us).

Therefore, i think the " sacrifice " fiction doesn't exist because there is nothing proof that God sent Jesus as a sheep for killing neither Jesus went to the Roman saying please crucify me to save my people.

So, if they crucify him out of his well and intention so it's not Significant at all.

Thanks, Truth, for the post.

Your post got me to thinking: if one forgives a debt, is payment still necessary?

That is, if God forgives sin, why would s/he still demand payment (in the form of Christ's sacrifice)? Conversly, can we say God "forgives" us if he received payment in full (through Christ's sacrifice)?

Peace

 

[TashaN]

Welcome

 

[The Black Whirlwind]

there were many (maybe still are) martyrs in the world, why is Jesus so significant?

 

[Boltwave]

there were many (maybe still are) martyrs in the world, why is Jesus so significant?

Look, if it wasn't signifigant then why is there such a thing as stigmata? That's a rare condition where someone recieves the wounds of Christ if you didn't know by the way.

 

[TashaN]

Look, if it wasn't signifigant then why is there such a thing as stigmata? That's a rare condition where someone recieves the wounds of Christ if you didn't know by the way.

are you trying to say this is a proof to build your whole beliefs in? :sarcastic

by the way, did you see those stigmata or you just heard of it even though it dosn't proof nothing.

 

[Boltwave]

are you trying to say this is a proof to build your whole beliefs in? :sarcastic

by the way, did you see those stigmata or you just heard of it even though it dosn't proof nothing.

No, no, no, there is a bigger picture to all of this. There have been frauds of stigmata and that has convinced people that it's just superstition. But no, I don't base my facts on just that, do you even know about the first stigmata? Read up on it.

 

[bartdanr]

Look, if it wasn't signifigant then why is there such a thing as stigmata? That's a rare condition where someone recieves the wounds of Christ if you didn't know by the way.

Hi Boltwave, thanks for the post.

Stigmata may be nothing more than hoaxes--God knows that we've had enough hoaxes made to defend almost any religion!

But my question is not really whether Jesus actually died on the cross or not. Even assuming he did (and assuming stigmata are real miracles, though I don't really see what that proves if they are), why should his sacrifice be considered great? According to the Scriptures, Jesus lost precisely nothing: he was quickly healed from his death. His confident predictions of his own resurrection clearly showed that his mental state was also such that he was going to go through an extremely difficult and painful process, but in the end he would lose nothing.

How then is it a sacrifice? Is a short period of intense suffering the ultimate sacrifice?

I would think that a human who gives his or her life, not knowing for sure what lies beyond, gives up more than a divine being who temporarily experiences suffering.

Peace

 

[TashaN]

No, no, no, there is a bigger picture to all of this. There have been frauds of stigmata and that has convinced people that it's just superstition. But no, I don't base my facts on just that, do you even know about the first stigmata? Read up on it.

what if this stigmata wasn't for Jesus but for someone else for example who was crucified?

is there any evidence that the stigmata releated to Jesus Christ not someone else?

 

[Boltwave]

Hi Boltwave, thanks for the post.

Stigmata may be nothing more than hoaxes--God knows that we've had enough hoaxes made to defend almost any religion!

But my question is not really whether Jesus actually died on the cross or not. Even assuming he did (and assuming stigmata are real miracles, though I don't really see what that proves if they are), why should his sacrifice be considered great? According to the Scriptures, Jesus lost precisely nothing: he was quickly healed from his death. His confident predictions of his own resurrection clearly showed that his mental state was also such that he was going to go through an extremely difficult and painful process, but in the end he would lose nothing.

How then is it a sacrifice? Is a short period of intense suffering the ultimate sacrifice?

I would think that a human who gives his or her life, not knowing for sure what lies beyond, gives up more than a divine being who temporarily experiences suffering.

Peace

Wait a minute, wait a minute, the reason people call it a "sacrafice" was because he took the weight of demonic activity and the mistakes and trouble people are causing onto his death. The reason he came back from the dead was to initialize the fact that the "sins" had been defeated by Jesus Christ. Notice how he didn't completely heal? His hands and feet had open gashes and holes only a large nail could have made. If he came back with no wounds, that would ruin the purpose of his cruxifiction because that would be returning to the physical world with new and re-built flesh.

 

[bartdanr]

Wait a minute, wait a minute, the reason people call it a "sacrafice" was because he took the weight of demonic activity and the mistakes and trouble people are causing onto his death. The reason he came back from the dead was to initialize the fact that the "sins" had been defeated by Jesus Christ. Notice how he didn't completely heal? His hands and feet had open gashes and holes only a large nail could have made. If he came back with no wounds, that would ruin the purpose of his cruxifiction because that would be returning to the physical world with new and re-built flesh.

Hi Boltwave, thanks for the post.

Yes, the Bible shows that Jesus had wounds immediately after his resurrection...but obviously there had been some healing, or else instead of walking around he would be hobbling, and he would be in intense pain. Do you believe that Jesus was in intense pain following his resurrection (and even now in heaven is in intense pain)? Is there evidence that this wounds never healed, even after 2,000 years?

Many people have life-long scars. Many have disfigurements far worse than holes in the hands, feet and side (even as bad as that is). But if Jesus is in heaven in glory, has all of his power and authority that he had before, his "sacrifice"--no matter how horrible (such as the weight of demonic activity) was temporary. He didn't give up anything permanently. Or if he did give up something permanently, please explain what that was.

Peace

 

[Boltwave]

Hi Boltwave, thanks for the post.

Yes, the Bible shows that Jesus had wounds immediately after his resurrection...but obviously there had been some healing, or else instead of walking around he would be hobbling, and he would be in intense pain. Do you believe that Jesus was in intense pain following his resurrection (and even now in heaven is in intense pain)? Is there evidence that this wounds never healed, even after 2,000 years?

Many people have life-long scars. Many have disfigurements far worse than holes in the hands, feet and side (even as bad as that is). But if Jesus is in heaven in glory, has all of his power and authority that he had before, his "sacrifice"--no matter how horrible (such as the weight of demonic activity) was temporary. He didn't give up anything permanently. Or if he did give up something permanently, please explain what that was.

Peace

I will later.

 

[Scott1]

Was Jesus' sacrifice significant?

All depends on what you personally believe... if you don't believe in Jesus as Lord, I'd have to say it's not all that significant in your life.

How would you make the case that Jesus' sacrifice (or God the Father's sacrifice of his son) was something significant?

It was pretty significant in my life..... "your mileage may vary" ( © NetDoc)

 

[TashaN]

All depends on what you personally believe... if you don't believe in Jesus as Lord, I'd have to say it's not all that significant in your life.

sorry to say this but it's really a shame to respond in such a way that you neglect anything which comes from soemone who does not believe in Jesus Christ as a savior for example answering him saying if you don't believe in Jesus so you don't have to know it or you will not understand it . i have no problem with blind faith people because they just went through a brain washer machines during thier childhood, teenage and when they became adult enough to understand what is around them then they just defend themselves from thoughts and they fight it saying: (( i'm a believer and i should follow blindly because simply i belief in and i don't care whether it makes any sense or not because i used to it and i'll stick to it till i die)). just so pathetic

here it doesn't matter what you believe in because it's your own business but we are just trying to discuss somthing whatever you believe in so if you can't answer to any question instead of saying if you don't believe in Jesus so you will never know so you must one thing of two:

1- If you don't have any idea about any topic but you believe in it no matter what so you have to wait until the other members can make it clear for you.

2- If you have some ideas and proofs so you can share your information with others.


for example for me as a muslim if someone could say somthing about islam that i can't answer so i'll never say to him this is just what i believe in because he has the right to talk and ask about it because it's a general topic and anyone can participate in it no matter what my personal opnion is.


Peace

 

[may]

Jesus sacrifice was a RANSOM sacrifice,that is why he was sacrificed to buy back what we had lost ,everlasting life ,only a perfect man could pay the price, John 3;16 NIV and the footnote saysOr his only begotten Son .......... For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life...KJV ......... For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord....romans 6;23(the footnote says Or through )NIV....For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.KJV i think that not many people think about the ransom sacrifice but that is why he came to earth and died as a man to give us back everlasting life

 

[bartdanr]

All depends on what you personally believe... if you don't believe in Jesus as Lord, I'd have to say it's not all that significant in your life.
It was pretty significant in my life..... "your mileage may vary" ( © NetDoc)

Hi Scott1, thanks for your post.

Although I recognize that millions of people belief the event to be significant to their own lives, my focus is more on if it was significant to Jesus himself.

Example: Let's say Bill Gates decided to give me $1 million. Now, in my economic situation, that would be a very significant gift. However, was it a significant gift for him? A tiny fraction of his wealth?

Second example: my sister-in-law, a single mother of two, living in a poor country, with no steady income, decides to give me $50. That wouldn't be a significant gift to my economic situation; but it would be a great sacrifice for her.

If Jesus loses something--perhaps everything--but only for a short span of time, can it be said that he sacrificed anything?

In short, is the death on the cross the rich putting in great wealth, or is it the widow putting in two mites?

Peace

 

[bartdanr]

Jesus sacrifice was a RANSOM sacrifice,that is why he was sacrificed to buy back what we had lost ,everlasting life ,only a perfect man could pay the price, John 3;16 NIV and the footnote saysOr his only begotten Son .......... For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life...KJV ......... For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord....romans 6;23(the footnote says Or through )NIV....For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.KJV i think that not many people think about the ransom sacrifice but that is why he came to earth and died as a man to give us back everlasting life

Hi May, thanks for the post.

To whom was the ransom owed? Who set the ransom price? Who established the wages of sin? Who received the payment of ransom? And did the payment of ransom result in the permanent loss of anything for Jesus?

Here's how I understanding the process of a typical ransom--please clarify if you disagree:

A person is kidnapped. If the ransom is not paid, the victim will be killed. A third party then pays the ransom, and the victim is set free. The kiddnapper escapes with the money, and the third party is left a little poorer (or a lot poorer), but happy that the victim lives.

Now how does this parallel the ransom paid by Jesus?

Peace

 

[bartdanr]

I will later.

Ok, thanks, Boltwave.

Peace

 

[TashaN]

Jesus sacrifice was a RANSOM sacrifice,that is why he was sacrificed to buy back what we had lost ,everlasting life ,only a perfect man could pay the price,

* the price for what ? why he supposed to be for somthing we didn't do and we never knew about it?

John 3;16 NIV and the footnote saysOr his only begotten Son .......... For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life...KJV .........

* Hi, may .. are you trying to proof somthing from this verse?

as i can see and read this verse it means that anyone who will follow the teaching of Jesus Christ will be safe and have everlasting life.

so what is the point? did the verse mention anything about the cruci-(FICTION) ?

the verse is so clear ( THAT WHOSOEVER BELIEVE IN HIM .... ) BELIEVEEEEEEE don't you know english???? i guess you know better than me just don't try to apply the verse in what you already believe in but try to understand through what it really means.

for example if a man said to his girl ... honey, if you agree to marry me i'll have everlasting life and i'll be happy forever. GOT IT?

that means anyone who believe in him will have everlasting life and he will live happy and as a faithfull person.

i think that not many people think about the ransom sacrifice but that is why he came to earth and died as a man to give us back everlasting life

* God came to earth by himself as a man you mean? ooh my God !!!!!!

why he didn't just forgive us instead of cruci-FICTION thing?