Was Jesus killed on the cross?

[dogsgod]

That doesn't sound even logical. "could not possibly" means it can't be sure. If you can't be sure how can you conclude that "they are allegorical, fiction"?!

History can be used as a reference. But humans are futile about the past as well as the future. History no matter how evidenced still require human skulls (which are subjective in nature) to interpret (with faith) what those evidence could mean. You need faith in the end and history as perceived by humans can hardly guarrantee truth.

I would admit to not knowing rather than considering a need for faith. Anyways, it's apparent that the author of Mark is making use of religious symbolism. For example, the Sanhedrin would not have called for an arrest and crucifixion as Passover was about to begin, but the author of Mark has him crucified at this time because of the symbolism involved.

The feast of unleavened bread succeeds that of the Passover, and falls on the fifteenth day of the month, and continues seven days, wherein they feed on unleavened bread; on every one of which days two bulls are killed, and one ram, and seven lambs. Now these lambs are entirely burnt, besides the ewe lamb which is added to all the rest, for sins; for it is intended as a feast for the priest on every one of those days.
- Antiquity of the Jews, Josephus
​

This special lamb is a sacrifice specifically for the forgiveness of sins.

1 Corinthians 5:
7 Get rid of the old yeast that you may be a new batch without yeast—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8 Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with bread without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth.
​

1 Corinthians was probably written some time between 50 and 60 CE. [W]e can see that the symbolism of Christ as a sacrificial Passover lamb was a part of the Christian tradition prior to the writing of the Gospels. Jesus Myth - The Case Against Historical Christ

 

[fallingblood]

Jesus said his sign shall be the sign of Jonah. So its important what was the sign of jonah.

But Jesus answered and said unto them "an evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonah"[matthew 12:39]

You should read "book of Jonah" 3 days and 3 nights Jonah was Alive in the belly of the fish and that was his sign. Jonah never died there. If anyone die then its not a sign. Jesus said his sign shall be sign of Jonah. So obviouly Jesus was still Alive in tomb unto Jonah.Its logical

I've read Jonah. However, the sign of Jonah does not mean that Jesus was alive in the tomb. You have to read the whole sign as predicted by Jesus. He says that as Jonah was in the belly of the whale for three days, Jesus would be in the heart of the earth for three days. A shallow tomb would not qualify.

Jesus dying does not disqualify it as a sign as it was just a physical death, not a spiritual death. It's not logical to assume that the Bible is stating that Jesus was alive in the tomb. Especially considering the entire sign of Jonah, and Jesus supposedly having to be in the heart of the earth for three days.

They had no any eye witnesses that why Crucifixion is full of contradiction.

This is not a viable argument. Even eye witness testimonies can by contradicting.

Sir Please tell me what was our sin and for what Sin Jesus died!! Jesus died for our sins right? If its true then we can tell Jesus came for sacrifice..But Jesus said he dont like sacrifice!

"But go and learn what this means: I DESIRE MERCY, NOT SACRIFICE. For i have not come to call the righteous, but sinners"[Matthew 9:13]

This a clear contradiction in christianity!!

First, one must understand that verse is referring to Hosea 6:6. Understanding this shows that Jesus is referring to burnt offerings. God no longer wanted burnt offerings, no more sacrifices. That is why Jesus came here for the sinners. He came here to offer mercy to sinners. That does not mean that he would not sacrifice himself, or that he was against it. You have to read the entire context.

Paul was a false man.He never met with Jesus.
Paul claimed he "thinks" that he has the holy spirit in him! Which meaning even he was not sure..

"..I THINK that I too have the spirit of God"[1 corinthians, 7:40]

I can prove by bible that paul was false man. Anyway we may debate about paul in another thread

The verse you used is taken out of context. Paul is not even talking about himself. So your point is moot.

Read my previous post.I prove that Jesus was never resurrected from the dead

Nope, I have to say you didn't. I actually show why you failed in doing so.

Whole Bible is not incorrect but its a corrupt book. I have problem to believe this whole Bible

So then how do you differentiate what is corrupt and not corrupt? From what I've see, it's basically whatever agrees with your point, you accept. If it doesn't, then it is corrupt.

According to christians belief Jesus said there psalm 22:1 so that times he had well knowledge about scripture. Psalm 22 chapter never said anything about crucifixion. In fact psalm 22 says God saved Jesus!


I dont think he feels it. I also not sure what jesus said there because Gospel have contradiction about Jesus last words!!

Psalm 22 says nothing of the such.

The Gospels are the best sources we have to understand the life and death of Jesus. Yes, there are contradictions, but many biographies do. That is not surprising. Understanding the society in which the Gospels were written, and how they came about is also very important. More so, just understanding the history surrounding the that time, and the creation of the Gospels, is extremely important. The only way to fully understand the Gospels is to take all of that into consideration.

 

[fallingblood]

Sir Please tell me what was our sin and for what Sin Jesus died!! Jesus died for our sins right?

According to the Bible, he died for everyone's sins. Every sin anyone has committed.

 

[sojourner]

Was Jesus killed on the cross?

Perhaps you'd prefer that he was hit by the cross town bus?

 

[DAKLCP]

Well, in the thological scripture of the Christian and Messianic Jewish beliefs, Y'shua was ressurected. So it was not mere death. But from the common sense point of view. These beliefs are built on the ressurection of Y'shua. So if the diciples and apostles were to not only have been willing to die but first suffer on several occasions torture and persecution by the hands of the Roman empire and current Jewish authority. That would mean the 11 remaining diciples, who wittnessed both the crucifixion and ressurection and Paul of Tarsus who claimed Y'shua appeard to him, would have had to seen a ressurection.

 

[jtartar]

بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمَنِِ الرَّحِيمِ​

In the​

​

Name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.


​

Verily, all praise belongs to Allah, and may His peace and blessings be showered upon our Prophet Muhammad, his family, his companions, and his true followers until the Day of Judgment:

As a Muslim, I believe that Jesus son of Mary (peace be upon him) is the promised Messiah and a true prophet of God. However, I reject the belief that he was killed on the cross, which Christians believe. This is because, if indeed he was killed on the cross and died an agonizing, disgraceful death, than the Jews are justified in rejecting him as the Messiah. That is because, the idea of the Messiah is that he will be a glorious ruler who will bring about a reign of total peace and tranquility. This is why actually many of the Jews reject Jesus (peace be upon him) as the Messiah, because they say he died a disgraceful death on the cross, therefore, how can he be the Messiah which we are eagerly awaiting?

Of course, as a Muslim, I believe firmly that Jesus (peace be upon him) was saved from the evil conspiracy of his enemies to crucify him, and that God raised him up to Himself, and that presently he is alive in the heavens. Before the Day of Judgment, he will return to the Earth to slay the Antichrist and establish a reign of peace and harmony in the world.

Christians often quote from their Bible prophecies that predict the Messiah will suffer and die. One such prophecy they quote is Psalm 22, which they claim is a clear prediction of the suffering Jesus (peace be upon him) would endure in his life. The famous quote of "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me", the prophecy that his hands and feet will be pierced, and his garments will be parted, etc., are all apparently found in Psalm 22.

However, this is also true that if indeed Psalm 22 is referring to the suffering which the Messiah must endure, it is also a prediction that God will save him from being killed by his enemies:

"But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me. Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog. Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns." (Psalm 22:19-21)

Now it becomes clear that if Psalm 22 is a prophecy about the Messiah, indeed he will be suffering at the hands of his enemies, but in the end, God will save him from the sword and from the lion's mouth, that is, from being killed.

According to the Bible, the Jews challenged Jesus (peace be upon him) to have God display a heavenly Sign in his favor, so that they might believe in him. In response, Jesus (peace be upon him) is quoted as saying:

"An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." (Matthew 12:39-40)

Anyone who knows the story of the Prophet Jonas (peace be upon him) knows that he was thrown overboard from a ship and cast into a stormy sea. Logic dictates that he should have died by way of drowning. But, as a Sign of God, he was miraculous saved, and a whale swallowed him up. There too, naturally he should have died, but he miraculously remained alive for three days and nights, until the whale vomited him out onto the shore, all the while he had been alive.

Jesus (peace be upon him) prophecised that God would display a similar Sign for him as well, but that, instead of being in the belly of the whale, he would be in the heart of the Earth, for three days and nights. Jonas (peace be upon him), was alive throughout his entire ordeal, as a miraculous sign of God. Therefore, in order for the ordeal of Jesus (peace be upon him) to also be a miraculous sign, he too must have been alive. When he was put on the cross and taken down, he must have been alive, despite natural expectation to the contrary, and when he was buried in the cave, he must have been alive, as he mentioned he would be, for three days and nights. And when he finally emerged from the heart of the Earth after these three days and nights, he would be alive, in fact, he would have to have been alive the whole time, just like Jonas was.

It is for this reason that Allah (God) says in the Holy Quran:

وَقَوْلِهِمْ إِنَّا قَتَلْنَا الْمَسِيحَ عِيسَى ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ رَسُولَ اللّهِ وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ وَمَا صَلَبُوهُ وَلَـكِن شُبِّهَ لَهُمْ وَإِنَّ الَّذِينَ اخْتَلَفُواْ فِيهِ لَفِي شَكٍّ مِّنْهُ مَا لَهُم بِهِ مِنْ عِلْمٍ إِلاَّ اتِّبَاعَ الظَّنِّ وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ يَقِينًا

And they said (in boast): "Verily, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah." - But they killed him not, nor did they crucify him, but rather, it was made to appear to them as such. And those who are in doubt about it have no knowledge thereof, they follow nothing but conjecture. Of a certainty they killed him not. (4:157)​

​

So despite the boast of the Jews that they had killed Jesus on the cross, and therefore they are right to reject him as the Messiah and as God's messenger, in reality, he was saved by God, and this is the firm faith of every Muslim.

Yaqub,
There are many things that you have written that show that you do not understand the reason for Jesus coming tio earth.
One of the main reasons for Jesus coming to earth is to give his life for men so that they can live again, those who have died, and for those who have not died when Jesus comes again, will not have to die at all, Matt 20:28, Eph 1:7.
Another reason for Jesus coming to earth was to end the Mosaic Law Covenant, by fulfilling all the things mentioned about Jesus, in the Hebrew Scriptures, Gal 3:10-14. The Mosaic Law Covenant was a law of sin and death. The Law condemned people to die for their sins, Rom 6:23, 2Cor 3:6,7,9, Acts 13:38,39.
On the night before Jesus died he instituted the NEW COVENANT, Luke 22:17-20, 1Cor 11:23-25. This was a fulfillment of Jere 31:31-34. With the death of Jesus the Old Covenant was superceded by the New Covenant, and became obsolete,Heb 8:6-13, Col 2:13,14, Acts 2:23,24.
What many Jews did not understand was; Jesus was to come first to teach about the Kingdom of God and give his life for men, then go back to heaven, and wait until God sends him again, but this time to set up The Kingdom, and The Judgement Day, of 1,000 years, Rev 20:4-6. which will bring about a paradise earth, Rev 21:1-5 Isa 65:17-25, John 3:16, Ps 37:29, Isa 45:18. During the thousand year judgement day, Satan will be in the abyss, Rev 20:1-3. Rev 20:7-15 tells about the scrolls being opened, and the graves giving up those in them. The other scrolls are new instructions that all must obey so that the earth can be turned into the beautiful paradise earth that God originally intended it to become, Gen 1:28.
Rom 5:6-10, tells a truth about God and Jesus. Heb 9:26-28, 2Cor 5:14,15.
Many of the prophets spoke about the death of the Messiah, which turned out to be Jesus, Isaiah, chapter 53 is a prophecy about Jesus. These scriptures were the ones the Ethiopian Eunuch was reading when Philip joined him as he was reading in his chariot, Acts 8:26-39.
Ps 22 mentions several things fulfilled by Jesus.
Ps 16:10 is a prophecy that is spoken about at Acts 2:27,31.

 

[fallingblood]

Yaqub,
There are many things that you have written that show that you do not understand the reason for Jesus coming tio earth.
One of the main reasons for Jesus coming to earth is to give his life for men so that they can live again, those who have died, and for those who have not died when Jesus comes again, will not have to die at all, Matt 20:28, Eph 1:7.

Looking at Jesus in a historical perspective, I can't see this being true. Even looking at how the story of Jesus evolved after his death, so that his followers could make sense of it, what you're saying was not even fully accepted. More so, if this was the reason for him being born, then the idea of him being the messiah, which the Gospels also support, then is completely false.

Another reason for Jesus coming to earth was to end the Mosaic Law Covenant, by fulfilling all the things mentioned about Jesus, in the Hebrew Scriptures, Gal 3:10-14. The Mosaic Law Covenant was a law of sin and death. The Law condemned people to die for their sins, Rom 6:23, 2Cor 3:6,7,9, Acts 13:38,39.

In Matthew, Jesus is clear on the fact that he did not come to break the law or end it. Also, the majority of the supposed Hebrew Scripture that he fulfilled never even mentioned Jesus.

Jesus never came to break the Mosaic Law Covenant. He never even mentions doing so. Paul even never tries to break it. They were both pious Jews.

I also think you are misinterpreting scripture. Romans 6:23 definitely does not support what you are saying. Romans 6:23 is talking about how it is now. That even now the wages of sin is death.

On the night before Jesus died he instituted the NEW COVENANT, Luke 22:17-20, 1Cor 11:23-25. This was a fulfillment of Jere 31:31-34. With the death of Jesus the Old Covenant was superceded by the New Covenant, and became obsolete,Heb 8:6-13, Col 2:13,14, Acts 2:23,24.

No. Jesus does not replace the old covenant. He does not fulfill Old Testament prophecies. He fails helplessly. He was a failed Messiah.

Paul, one of the earlier followers of Jesus does not recognize a new covenant. He recognizes that there may be some new exceptions to the covenant, but he still recognizes the Old covenant. Plus, Jesus had no right to even replace the covenant. He was a failed messiah. He was not the Jewish Messiah. He did not fulfill the prophecies for the messiah. And thus, he had no right to issue in a new covenant.

The Old Covenant, for all intensive purposes, is still in effect.

What many Jews did not understand was; Jesus was to come first to teach about the Kingdom of God and give his life for men, then go back to heaven, and wait until God sends him again, but this time to set up The Kingdom, and The Judgement Day, of 1,000 years, Rev 20:4-6. which will bring about a paradise earth, Rev 21:1-5 Isa 65:17-25, John 3:16, Ps 37:29, Isa 45:18. During the thousand year judgement day, Satan will be in the abyss, Rev 20:1-3. Rev 20:7-15 tells about the scrolls being opened, and the graves giving up those in them. The other scrolls are new instructions that all must obey so that the earth can be turned into the beautiful paradise earth that God originally intended it to become, Gen 1:28.

First, Revelations most likely has nothing to do with the end times. The more and more it is studied, the more it becomes apparent it was talking about the time in which it was written. It is not talking about something that still hasn't happened, it is talking about things that have happened centuries ago.

Also, there is no reason for the Jews to accept Jesus. There is no reason why Jesus had to come twice as you are explaining. That is actually illogical when speaking about the Messiah. The fact is, as soon as Jesus died, he became a failed Messiah. That is all there is to it. Also, Jesus states clearly that the Kingdom of God was suppose to happen in the lifetime of his personal followers who heard him speak before he died. They are dead, and no Kingdom of God. Again, just one more of his failures.

Rom 5:6-10, tells a truth about God and Jesus. Heb 9:26-28, 2Cor 5:14,15.
Many of the prophets spoke about the death of the Messiah, which turned out to be Jesus, Isaiah, chapter 53 is a prophecy about Jesus. These scriptures were the ones the Ethiopian Eunuch was reading when Philip joined him as he was reading in his chariot, Acts 8:26-39.
Ps 22 mentions several things fulfilled by Jesus.
Ps 16:10 is a prophecy that is spoken about at Acts 2:27,31.

No. Jesus is not the Messiah. He failed miserably at trying to be such. There is no logical way that Jesus could be the messiah. He did not fulfill the prophecy. He did not free the Jewish people. He was a failure. And the supposed fulfillments that Jesus did satisfy had nothing to do with the Messiah.

 

[dogsgod]

What scene tells of an historical event and how do we know?

 

[Hawkins]

I would admit to not knowing rather than considering a need for faith. Anyways, it's apparent that the author of Mark is making use of religious symbolism. For example, the Sanhedrin would not have called for an arrest and crucifixion as Passover was about to begin, but the author of Mark has him crucified at this time because of the symbolism involved.

In a human society, I don't think it's uncommon for corrupted law enforcers to do anything to solve their facing problems, including breaking laws.

Moreover, there are different circles holding different Laws in the Jews society, some of them (the nobles?) don't even follow the Oral Torah. Only the Pharisees are thought to be the upholders of the Oral Torah but superficially only (theologically in accordance to the Bible). They even allow trading inside the synagogues.

While their authority and the only legitimate law enforcer role is threatened by the emerging prophets such as John the Baptist and Jesus, I am not surprised that the Pharisees will take necessary measures to be against them, especially when Jesus claims deity in public, which should be the most offending deed against the Pharisees both religiously and in terms of power and authority.

This special lamb is a sacrifice specifically for the forgiveness of sins.

1 Corinthians was probably written some time between 50 and 60 CE. [W]e can see that the symbolism of Christ as a sacrificial Passover lamb was a part of the Christian tradition prior to the writing of the Gospels. Jesus Myth - The Case Against Historical Christ

If you are willing to think more dynamically and spiritually, it's not that difficult to understand our notion when we come to the conclusion that all (or most or some) the ritual practice of the Jews are spiritually the preparation for the coming of their Messiah Jesus Christ. So the ritual practice is a prophecy for the sacrifice of Jesus Christ for the sins of both the Jews and Gentiles.

 

[dogsgod]

In a human society, I don't think it's uncommon for corrupted law enforcers to do anything to solve their facing problems, including breaking laws.

Moreover, there are different circles holding different Laws in the Jews society, some of them (the nobles?) don't even follow the Oral Torah. Only the Pharisees are thought to be the upholders of the Oral Torah but superficially only (theologically in accordance to the Bible). They even allow trading inside the synagogues.

While their authority and the only legitimate law enforcer role is threatened by the emerging prophets such as John the Baptist and Jesus, I am not surprised that the Pharisees will take necessary measures to be against them, especially when Jesus claims deity in public, which should be the most offending deed against the Pharisees both religiously and in terms of power and authority.



If you are willing to think more dynamically and spiritually, it's not that difficult to understand our notion when we come to the conclusion that all (or most or some) the ritual practice of the Jews are spiritually the preparation for the coming of their Messiah Jesus Christ. So the ritual practice is a prophecy for the sacrifice of Jesus Christ for the sins of both the Jews and Gentiles.

That's nice, but you would have to show evidences of the Sanhedrin breaking all their own rules at times. It works theologically in the case if Jesus, no surprise there, but it doesn't work historically.

 

[Oberon]

That's nice, but you would have to show evidences of the Sanhedrin breaking all their own rules at times.

How could you possibly know what all these rules were. We have precious little information about 1st century judaism, and the gospels/epistles are one of our main sources.

 

[Muffled]

Perhaps you'd prefer that he was hit by the cross town bus?

At a crossroads no doubt. It always seems that Jesus is standing in someone's way, when they are hell bent to get somewhere.

The Sadduscees were hell bent on getting into a grave where all they had to do was sleep. Along comes Jesus and rattles there funky cage by saying there is an afterlife and a person should be preparing for a trip to Heaven.

The Pharisees were hell bent on creating their own version of God (something Muslims and Christians do as well) by changing the word of God by misinterpreting it. Along comes Jesus and tells them He is God and the real Word which threatens their illusions of a false god.

The Muslims are hell bent on enshrining their illusions also but the real Jesus doesn't fit so they want to reduse Him to the level of the local goatherder so He won't be in their way. (Except when He is herding goats in a Muslim country, then they are ready for a sacrificail goat)

 

[Bowman]

It is for this reason that Allah (God) says in the Holy Quran:

وَقَوْلِهِمْ إِنَّا قَتَلْنَا الْمَسِيحَ عِيسَى ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ رَسُولَ اللّهِ وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ وَمَا صَلَبُوهُ وَلَـكِن شُبِّهَ لَهُمْ وَإِنَّ الَّذِينَ اخْتَلَفُواْ فِيهِ لَفِي شَكٍّ مِّنْهُ مَا لَهُم بِهِ مِنْ عِلْمٍ إِلاَّ اتِّبَاعَ الظَّنِّ وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ يَقِينًا

And they said (in boast): "Verily, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah." - But they killed him not, nor did they crucify him, but rather, it was made to appear to them as such. And those who are in doubt about it have no knowledge thereof, they follow nothing but conjecture. Of a certainty they killed him not. (4:157)​

So despite the boast of the Jews that they had killed Jesus on the cross, and therefore they are right to reject him as the Messiah and as God's messenger, in reality, he was saved by God, and this is the firm faith of every Muslim.

Please tell us how many verses from the Koran actually directly address Jesus’ crucifixion, brother?

How many verses has Islam told you there are?

Out of the more than 77,000 Arabic words.

Out of the more than 6,000 verses.

Out of the 114 chapters.

There must be literally legions of verses upon which to build the Islamic mindset, right?

Tell us, brother…..please don't say that you rely upon just one verse...

 

[Muffled]

Please tell us how many verses from the Koran actually directly address Jesus’ crucifixion, brother?

How many verses has Islam told you there are?

Out of the more than 77,000 Arabic words.

Out of the more than 6,000 verses.

Out of the 114 chapters.

There must be literally legions of verses upon which to build the Islamic mindset, right?

Tell us, brother…..please don't say that you rely upon just one verse...

I believe there is another verse but both are misinterpreted and the interpretations contradict the Biblical account. Usually Muslims try to duck that problem by disclaiming the Bible.

 

[Bowman]

I believe there is another verse but both are misinterpreted and the interpretations contradict the Biblical account. Usually Muslims try to duck that problem by disclaiming the Bible.

Hi brother...

I would like to see a follower of islam come forth with any other Koranic ayahs which they use for their position.

One verse is simply ludicrous to base an entire theology around.

Agreed...that Muslims attempt to discredit the Holy Bible in a feeble attempt to make their belief system more appealing...

 

[sojourner]

At a crossroads no doubt. It always seems that Jesus is standing in someone's way, when they are hell bent to get somewhere.

The Sadduscees were hell bent on getting into a grave where all they had to do was sleep. Along comes Jesus and rattles there funky cage by saying there is an afterlife and a person should be preparing for a trip to Heaven.

The Pharisees were hell bent on creating their own version of God (something Muslims and Christians do as well) by changing the word of God by misinterpreting it. Along comes Jesus and tells them He is God and the real Word which threatens their illusions of a false god.

The Muslims are hell bent on enshrining their illusions also but the real Jesus doesn't fit so they want to reduse Him to the level of the local goatherder so He won't be in their way. (Except when He is herding goats in a Muslim country, then they are ready for a sacrificail goat)

bloody well said! Frubals!

 

[dogsgod]

Hi brother...

I would like to see a follower of islam come forth with any other Koranic ayahs which they use for their position.

One verse is simply ludicrous to base an entire theology around.

Agreed...that Muslims attempt to discredit the Holy Bible in a feeble attempt to make their belief system more appealing...

.



I agree, and this is the verse that an entire theology is based around:

Genesis1:1 In the beginning God created...

In fact, that's not even the entire verse, yet an entire theology rests on those 5 words.


.

 

[Bowman]

.



I agree, and this is the verse that an entire theology is based around:

Genesis1:1 In the beginning God created...

In fact, that's not even the entire verse, yet an entire theology rests on those 5 words.


.

Nope.

It is three words in the Hebrew, brother.

 

[allright]

Psalm 22 gives an exact medical description of someone dying by crucifixion and it sure isnt talking about Judas.

 

[dogsgod]

Nope.

It is three words in the Hebrew, brother.

Amazing. How many people believe those words today? Probably a billion or more and all just because of those first few words, and most people probably haven't read much further than that.