Breathe
Hostis humani generis
He's in suspended animation by the alien overlords, duh!
That's seriously the most logical answer I could come up with. If he's been conscious, he's already far older than 73.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Was Jesus killed on the cross?
- Thread starter Yaqub
- Start date
He's in suspended animation by the alien overlords, duh!
That's seriously the most logical answer I could come up with. If he's been conscious, he's already far older than 73.
Yaqub
Member
This is implying that God must degrade Himself in order to show His love. The God which I believe in, who is the one God of Abraham, never does such things, He is Holy and not a mortal that is subject to life and death. The God which is the God of Islaam is a Living God who never dies.
The moment you say "God was born", or "God was killed", or "God ate food" or "God went to sleep", etc, you are introducing an anthropomorphic concept of God which goes against the belief in God which the great prophets Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad (peace be upon them) all believed in.
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
Every religion, to a point, has ideas outside the realm of reason.
Shine_0f_sun
Member
If you still believe Jesus is divine because he was raised up heaven,
why dont you accept other prophets as divine who were raised up to heaven?
Do you know other prophets also raised up heaven unto Jesus??
..And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. And Elisha saw it, and he cried..And he saw him more [2 Kings 2:11-12]
Also Enoch was taken to heaven by God unto Jesus
"And Enoch walked with God; and he was not; for God took him"[Genesis 5:24]
This is also repeated in Hebrews 11:5
"By Faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death; he could not be found, because God had taken him away. For before he was taken, he was commended as one with pleased God"[Hebrews 11:5]
enoch taken to heaven By God unto Jesus!!
why dont you accept other prophets as divine who were raised up to heaven?
Do you know other prophets also raised up heaven unto Jesus??
..And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. And Elisha saw it, and he cried..And he saw him more [2 Kings 2:11-12]
Also Enoch was taken to heaven by God unto Jesus
"And Enoch walked with God; and he was not; for God took him"[Genesis 5:24]
This is also repeated in Hebrews 11:5
"By Faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death; he could not be found, because God had taken him away. For before he was taken, he was commended as one with pleased God"[Hebrews 11:5]
enoch taken to heaven By God unto Jesus!!
Cassiterides
Member
Well it wasn't a cross, it was a stake.
σταυρός" (stauros) = upright stake or pole.
σταυρός" (stauros) = upright stake or pole.
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
Jesus is considered divine not because he was raised up to heaven, he is considered divine as he is believed to be the actual Son of God, and God incarnate.
xkatz
Well-Known Member
What difference would this make? Jesus was still killed according to Biblical accounts.
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
That is debatable. Looking at the Roman form of crucifixion, there is a high chance that he was crucified on a cross. Probably, it looked more like an upper case T, instead of the lower case t that is usually seen. Either way, it is a point that doesn't really matter.
Shine_0f_sun
Member
There Have no any "ACTUAL" Son of God in Bible!!!
"..Adam, which was the son of God" [luke 3:38]
"..Israel (jacob ) is my son, even MY firstborn"[exodus 4:22]
"For i (GOD) am a father to israel, and Epharim is My firstborn"[jeremiah 31:9]
"..The lord hath said unto me (David): 'Thou art MY Son: this day have i begotten thee"[psalms 2:7]
So David is also Gods begotten son. The meaning of "Son of God" is not literal but metaphorical!!
It can be anyone who is beloved by God
Jesus also said that God is not only his Father but also ur Father(Matthew 5:45, 48)
"that you may be sons of ur Father in heaven..."[Matthew 5:45]
"Be Perfect, therefore, as ur heavenly Father is perfect"[Matthew 5:48]
"For as many as are led by the spirit of God, they are the sons of God" [Romans 18:14]
"He (Solomon) shall build a house for My Name, and i will establish the throne of his kingdom for ever. I WILL BE HIS (SOLOMON) FATHER AND HE SHALL BE MY SON" [1 chronicles 22:10]
You will see in many passages of the Bible "Son of God " which signifies Love and affection,
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
That may be true, but it is besides the point. Christians will quote verses, such as John 3:16: For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son.., as well as the virgin birth stories (where the Bible is quite clear that Jesus is the literal son of God) to prove their point.
I'm not saying that it is true; however, that is the belief that Christians have and that is the reason that they believe Jesus is divine.
Yaqub
Member
Indeed, the phrase "son of God" in the Bible is not meant to be taken literally. For example, one of the beautitudes of Jesus is "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called children of God." Also, when Jesus was ascending to the heavens, he told his disciples:
I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God (John 20:17)
I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God (John 20:17)
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
I don't know about that. There are four Gospels that have different ideas. However, Luke and Matthew, in their virgin birth stories, which are meant to be literal, clearly states that God is the father of Jesus. That God miraculously impregnated Mary.
Yaqub
Member
As for the Gospel of Luke, it also claims that Adam is the son of God (Luke 3:38), for the very same reason, he didn't have a father! So the phrase is obviously being used in some figurative sense, unless Christians are willing to believe that Adam too is the begotten son of God just like Jesus, which they aren't.
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
Many do believe that Adam is the son of God in a way. Not in the same way as Jesus was, as Jesus was actually born. However, Adam, having been created by God, is considered the son of God by many Christians.
Luke 1:26-38 is quite clear that Jesus was meant to be considered the actual Son of God. That God, through the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, and was thus the literal Son of God.
Yaqub
Member
the same passage mentions that Mary asked how she could become pregnant when she was a virgin, and the angel says that "nothing is impossible with God." God can do anything, for Him to create a person without a father, or even without a mother, as was the case with Adam, is no problem. Therefore, it is quite absurd to make the conclusion that Jesus must be a literally begotten son of God simply because he doesn't have a father.
In any event, Christians have themselves disagreed as to what being a begotten son of God actually implies. I mean, they all believe God Himself didn't actually impregnate Mary physically. They say, God sent the Holy Spirit which entered into Mary and miraculously caused her to become pregnant. They also believe that on the Day of Pentecost, God sent the Holy Spirit which entered into the disciples and they miraculously began to speak in foreign tongues.
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
The Holy Spirit, according to Christians, is God.
The virgin birth story is very clear that Jesus is the literal son of God. That God, in the form of the Holy Spirit, impregnated Mary. Thus, Jesus is the literal son of God. The Bible is very clear about this. This is the Christian belief, and is actually a foundational belief in Christianity.
I'm not saying that the Christian belief is true, as I do not believe it. However, Christians believe it, and they support it with what the Bible states.
The Bible is very clear that Jesus is the Son of God, and it was meant to be taken literally.
Yaqub
Member
You mentioned that the Holy Spirit according to Christians is God. But is there any unequivocal verse in the Bible where that is proven? If I'm not mistaken, the Gospels mention how the Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus in the body of a dove. Was that dove God?
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
Yaqub
Member
This article also mentioned that there are actually no references in the Bible at all to anyone worshipping the Holy Spirit, which would of course prove that the Holy Spirit is God, rather, there are references to how people prayed to God while possesed by the Spirit, or while it was dwelling within them.