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Featured Was Jesus Gay?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Skwim, Nov 16, 2019.

  1. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    Simply consider.

    "The phrase "the disciple whom Jesus loved" . . . or, in John 20:2 the disciple beloved of Jesus . . . is used six times in the Gospel of John, but in no other New Testament accounts of Jesus. John 21:24 states that the Gospel of John is based on the written testimony of this disciple."
    Source: Wikipedia
    The six references to the disciple whom Jesus loved as referred to in John's gospel:
    [sources: Wikipedia and KJV]

    It is this disciple who, while reclining beside Jesus at the Last Supper, asks Jesus who it is that will betray him, after being requested by Peter to do so.[Jn 13:23-25]
    23 Now there was leaning on Jesus' bosom one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved.
    24 Simon Peter therefore beckoned to him, that he should ask who it should be of whom he spake.
    25 He then lying on Jesus' breast saith unto him, Lord, who is it?

    Later at the crucifixion, Jesus tells his mother, "Woman, here is your son", and to the Beloved Disciple he says, "Here is your mother."[Jn 19:26-27]
    26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
    27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

    When Mary Magdalene discovers the empty tomb, she runs to tell the Beloved Disciple and Peter. The two men rush to the empty tomb and the Beloved Disciple is the first to reach it. However, Peter is the first to enter.[Jn 20:1-2]
    1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
    2 Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.

    In John 21, the last chapter of the Gospel of John, the Beloved Disciple is one of seven fishermen involved in the miraculous catch of 153 fish.[Jn 21:7]
    7 Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter, It is the Lord. Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt his fisher's coat unto him, (for he was naked,) and did cast himself into the sea.

    Also in the book's final chapter, after Jesus implies the manner in which Peter will die, Peter sees the Beloved Disciple following them and asks, "What about him?" Jesus answers, "If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow Me."[John 21:20-23]
    20 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?
    21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?
    22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
    23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?

    Again in the Gospel's last chapter, it states that the very book itself is based on the written testimony of the disciple whom Jesus loved.[John 21:24]
    24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.


    And here is how this disciple is described in just one verse, John 13:23, in various Bibles

    "whom Jesus loved."
    "the one Yeshua particularly loved"
    "the one Jesus loved"
    "The disciple Jesus loved"
    "the one whom Jesus loved"
    "the one whom Jesus was loving."
    "the one Jesus loved very much"
    "the follower Jesus loved"
    "the one whom Jesus kept loving"
    "that one of them who Jesus loved,"
    "One of the disciples, the one Jesus loved dearly"
    "the one Jesus specially loved"
    "The disciple that Jesus dearly loved"

    Sound like mere friendship to you?

    "Yeshua particularly loved." "whom Jesus was loving." "Jesus loved very much," "Jesus kept loving," "the one Jesus loved dearly," "Jesus specially loved." "Jesus dearly loved"​

    Not to me it doesn't. Not that there's anything wrong with being gay, but the possibility seems to be entirely ignored when it comes to portraying Jesus. I say, let him out of the closet.................."Lots of luck Skwim."

    .
     
    #1 Skwim, Nov 16, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2019
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  2. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    Total queen.
     
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  3. lukethethird

    lukethethird Well-Known Member

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  4. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    Oh my. You think the English word love nicely and neatly and accurately translates the same in other languages. The Greeks, for example, had several words for what translates to love, but each word reflecting a different sort of love.
     
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  5. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    Not particularly. But so what?

    So what's your point here? The Bibles I read are in English, not Greek.

    .
     
  6. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    That you can't assume eros just because English speakers attach eros to the word love. No doubt Jesus extensively spoke of agape with heft doses of philia in between, and lots of xenia.
     
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  7. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    You forgot the part when John runs away naked...
     
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  8. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    So when reading the Bible, when and when can't we assume words mean what they mean?

    Why the assumption, "No doubt . . . ."?

    .
     
  9. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    It's the fact that pretty much everyone knows it's a translation of a translation, and things get lost in those. In this case, it's our catch-all application of the term love, when many places (such as Greek, one of the original Bible languages) had distinctions between different types of love. Like the love of two passionate lovers and the love felt between mother and child. Even pro-KJV fundamentists know what agape is.
     
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  10. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Veteran Member
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    Does it matter? It also doesn't make sense to project modern social constructs on ancient people as they had no concept of the modern identity of "gay".
     
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  11. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    Because it can be demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt those are the sorts of love Jesus spoke of. Eros, I can't recall when he talked about that one, other than in reference to adultery.
     
  12. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Veteran Member
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    That wasn't John. It was someone else and he did have a covering on beforehand.
     
  13. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    We can speculate though. Such as how Raphael Sanzio was probably gay. Of course the ideas for a word to describe those feelings and attractions didn't exists, but attractions and preferences clearly did.
     
  14. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Veteran Member
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    Yeah. There's pretty much nothing about Jesus having sexual feelings or relations with anyone, regardless of gender, even in the apocrypha (that thing about Him kissing Mary Magdalene was taken out of context). I always viewed Jesus as asexual or just an ascetic who wasn't concerned with romantic relationships.
     
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  15. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta and Spiritualist and Pantheist
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    Was Jesus Gay?

    I'm saying 'NO"and saying he married Mary Magdalen.
     
  16. exchemist

    exchemist Well-Known Member

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    Another flamebait thread from Skwim........
     
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  17. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    Kind of speaks to a pretty big Biblical shortcoming doesn't it.

    So, just because someone talked about Macintosh apples means they never talked about crab apples? Besides, it isn't Jesus who is using the term ". . . love," but the author of John.




    .
     
    #17 Skwim, Nov 16, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
  18. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    Be my guest and post a more interesting thread. PLEASE! ......In the mean time, thank you for taking the time to read this one. Obviously it interested you. ;)

    .
     
    #18 Skwim, Nov 16, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
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  19. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    Skwim do you follow manmade traditions from the church, or do you follow the Word of God? Oops, sorry wrong thread.

    This implies some favoritism for a disciple, and I am not sure what the point is. Many of the stories about Jesus point to his imperfect discipleship policies. That may be why this is in there, but the love for this one disciple may indeed be very emotional and nonmasculine. Consider some of the differences between major biblical characters, where the better one is the less masculine one. Jacob is preferable to Esau, and Jacob is smooth like a woman. Esau is strong, handy in a war no doubt and a terrific hunter. Jacob is less manly, but he's the man of choice. David and Jonathan have a relationship or some kind that is claimed to be better than that of men and women. Anal sex is forbidden between men, but close relationships are encouraged between men. Its clearly important that men bond, that they not be very warlike, that acting sort of macho is discouraged. Its better apparently to be sensitive. I'm not sure how it ties into this story about Jesus, however it matches a lot of other relationships in the canon where the men are very close emotionally and physically minus sexual activities.
     
  20. THE Art Vandelay

    It's My Birthday!

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    Jesus was a Jew, living under the same Law that the nation of Israel did during his time on earth. That Law expressly forbade homosexuality to the point that it carried the death penalty for those who engaged in it. Jesus died as a perfect, sinless man. So no, he wasn't gay. Jesus' love for his disciples and apostles had nothing to do with romantic feelings. It was a love that good friends have for one another, a close bond. That's it.
     
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