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Featured Was Jesus Crucified or Not?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by adrian009, Jan 26, 2019.

?
  1. Yes

    64.6%
  2. No

    8.3%
  3. I don't know

    14.6%
  4. This poll doesn't reflect my thinking

    12.5%
  1. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    It is not pastors who have said they bow to Mecca where the stone is.


    The Qibla, is the direction that should be faced when a Muslim prays during Ṣalāṫ. It is fixed as the direction of the Kaaba…

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qiblabow

    Now, if you say they bow to Allah, and it is also said they bow to the rock, then the conclusion is, the rock is Allah for them, logically?

    But, now that we speak about Allah, what do you think Allah is, if he is not the rock?

    In Bible, God is Spirit, He is not placed to one specific place on earth. Perhaps because He is greater than earth.
     
  2. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    Do you know what the Quran says that Allah SWT Is? "In Islam, Allah is the unique, omnipotent and only deity and creator of the universe and is equivalent to God in other Abrahamic religions. According to Islamic belief,Allah is the most common word to represent God, and humble submission to his will, divine ordinances and commandments is the pivot of the Muslim faith". The Quibla is merely the direction anywhere on earth to Mecca in Saudi Arabia.

    In Daniel 6:10 Daniel prayed toward Jerusalem. So praying in a certain direction is not new or unique.

    Haven't I already said that the word "Allah" is the word for God in Arabic? Didn't I already tell you that many Middle Eastern Christians use the word "Allah" when referring to God. If you are going to defy the very words of Jesus Christ to attack another belief system then at least stop being so lazy and do some scholarly research so you you don't embarrass yourself for pete's sake.

    I am quite cranky, and I apologize. I had a molar dug out and makes me feel like a dragon. At one point, I am sure the dentist had his boots in my mouth.
     
    #242 Ellen Brown, May 9, 2019
    Last edited: May 9, 2019
  3. ideogenous_mover

    ideogenous_mover Well-Known Member

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    It was a common death penalty wasn't, the empire used to crucify people in the hundreds simultaneously I thought. However, if one's theology states otherwise then I imagine that for them the case is settled.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. dmap

    dmap God is good and beautiful

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    If Jesus existed at all, he was likely an apocalyptic prophet who was probably crucified and left hanging on the cross until his body decomposed. Richard Carrier proposes that Jesus didn't exist at all and he has lots of YouTube videos about this topic.
     
  5. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    I have the impression most historians accept Jesus existed and was crucified, even atheists. This OP isn't about anything supernatural, rather an historic fact.
     
  6. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    But still they bow to the stone. Can you explain why, if the stone is not the God?

    That is nice scripture. Probably people pray to some direction always. But it doesn’t say it is required to pray to certain direction. In the case of Daniel, he happened to be towards Jerusalem. There is really no reason to think it was because God is in that direction. Christians, or Jews don’t have to pray to certain direction. God is great and he can hear even if the message is not sent to Jerusalem.

    Sorry, if this sounds like an attack. I don’t mean this to be attack, but just genuine questions that has bothered me some time.

    No problem. That is painful and I hope it eases soon.
     
  7. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    What is this Stone you speak of, I am confused? On Hajj, the pilgrimage to Mecca, there is a point where they march around a squarish box that symbolically contains the "Evil Gods". I think this is the place where Muslims throw stones at this box to signify their disapproval of other Gods?

    Hajj is a symbolic reenactment of the journeys of Muhammad PBUH before Islam began.

    The way my bed faces, I wind up praying to the North when I kneel to thank God. Nothing sacred about North. For me Quibla would be at 17 Degrees.

    Presently, I have been thinking through God's displeasure of long, repetitive prayers. The Lord's prayer, and the 23rd Psalm are in my heart right now. I'm thinking that memorized prayer allows one to be lazy and avoids the need to get one's heart involved perhaps?

    I am not the best Muslim, Christian, or Jew. I just study all three in hopes of knowing enough to be loving and kind to all of them.
     
  8. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    7. God always hears his prayers and his prayers were heard

    And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I think thee that thou hast heard me. And I knew that thou hearest me always. (John 11:41-42)

    Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared. (Hebrews 5:7)

    Jesus was a pious person so this entails that his prayers would have been/were accepted and he was saved a cursed death (in terms of Torah) on the Cross.
    Right, please?

    Regards
     
  9. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    Ok, thank you, that was useful information.
     
  10. Link

    Link Member

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    It was a feign death, crucified and killed implies, he would of departed from the world, it appeared like he got crucified and died, but it was a feign death, to show the power of God and that's up to God to decide when he actually dies.
     
  11. lukethethird

    lukethethird Active Member

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    It doesn't matter, it's called poetic licence, it is whatever suits the agenda.
     
  12. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe Jesus already knew that it was impossible to avoid the cup.
    John 16:17 So some of his disciples said to one another, “What is this that he says to us, ‘A little while, and you will not see me, and again a little while, and you will see me’; and, ‘because I am going to the Father’?”
     
  13. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe He is God in the flesh so He does have the right to decide when He dies.

    I believe that is a vain belief without foundation.

    I believe He did depart from this world but before the body died and before the crucifixion was completed.

    I believe that is because the spirit is not visible. The only way we know this is due to the fact that God informed them after the fact when they were writing the books. And yet they reported the appearance anyway. So if He left and ended up dead does it matter that he didn't die and end up dead? The result is the same.
     
  14. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe you can have all kinds of fun imaginings and fantasize up a whole bunch of scenarios.
     
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