Was Gen 15:6 Mistranslated?

[Jonathan Hoffman]

The currently accepted translation states:
Gen 15:6 And he (Abram) believed in the LORD; and he(God) counted it to him (Abram) for righteousness.

But could the correct translation be:
And he (Abram) believed in the LORD; and he (Abram) counted it to Him (God) for righteousness.

In other words, Abram believed that God would really fulfill His promise to make Abram a father to many offspring (in Gen 15:4,5) and praised His righteousness for making these promises.

Under the circumstances, isn't it reasonable to say Abram was recognizing and praising the faithfulness, truthfulness and righteousness of his God?

So think about this and consider whether this verse was mistranslated. After all, many other verses have been mistranslated in the Bible.

 

[Desert Snake]

It's the first translation.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Mistranslated by whom? The JPS translation is:

And because he put his trust in the Lord, He reckoned it to his merit.​

 

[Jonathan Hoffman]

Mistranslated by whom? The JPS translation is:

And because he put his trust in the Lord, He reckoned it to his merit.
​

Well, for one example, the authors of the JPS translation you just mentioned.

 

[outhouse]

Mistranslated by whom? The JPS translation is:

And because he put his trust in the Lord, He reckoned it to his merit.
​

Paul.

Theres a long thread running a week elsewhere.

 

[Rakhel]

It's called...oh what's the word...comprehension.

 

[Levite]

The currently accepted translation states:
Gen 15:6 And he (Abram) believed in the LORD; and he(God) counted it to him (Abram) for righteousness.

But could the correct translation be:
And he (Abram) believed in the LORD; and he (Abram) counted it to Him (God) for righteousness.

In other words, Abram believed that God would really fulfill His promise to make Abram a father to many offspring (in Gen 15:4,5) and praised His righteousness for making these promises.

Under the circumstances, isn't it reasonable to say Abram was recognizing and praising the faithfulness, truthfulness and righteousness of his God?

So think about this and consider whether this verse was mistranslated. After all, many other verses have been mistranslated in the Bible.

The full context of the section indicates grammatically that the standard translation is correct. All the classical commentators parse the verse that way.

You could take the verse in isolation and translate it as you indicate, but it would be a midrashic reading. Which is fine: midrashim are useful and creative. But a midrashic reading is not the pshat (plain meaning).

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

It's called...oh what's the word...comprehension.

Whose? Yours?

From the The JPS Torah Commentary: Genesis:

He reckoned it to his merit

God is the subject of the verb.[10] Hebrew tzedakah, usually "righteousness," sometimes bears the sense of "merit." The idea is that Abram's act of faith made him worthy of God's reward, which is secured through a covenant. ... The alternative possibility that Abram regarded "it," -- that is, the promise of posterity -- as an expression of God's righteousness and grace seems less likely.[11]

[the notes indicate]

10. So Targ. Onk., Rashi, Ibn Ezra, Radak, Sforno.
11. So in Deut. 9:4; 2 Sam. 19:29; Dan. 9:18. The alternate interpretation is given by Bekhor Shor, Ramban, Ralbag, Abravanel.​

I generally have an Ibn Ezra bias on such things, but to pretend that the Hebrew is unambiguous is a little silly.

 

[Jonathan Hoffman]

Can you provide the 'word for word' translation from the actual Hebrew words. . . and then add your commentary on the grammar?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Sorry. I could not give a valid commentary on my own grammar and I have zero interest in feeding your agenda. With people like Fox, Alter, and the folks behind the JPS you have an amazing collection of scholarship and talent. Read what they have to say (or don't). Bottom line: sometimes the Hebrew is ambiguous.

 

[Jonathan Hoffman]

Yes, I realize Hebrew can be ambiguous, and that is exactly my point re Gen 15:6, a crucial verse to support Pauline Xianity.

 

[Rakhel]

Whose? Yours?

From the The JPS Torah Commentary: Genesis:I generally have an Ibn Ezra bias on such things, but to pretend that the Hebrew is unambiguous is a little silly.

Me? misunderstand the text? No.
My comprehension of the text is fine without your help.
I fully understand who "he" and "him" are referring to.
Now if you didn't comprehend that...what can I say.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I fully understand who "he" and "him" are referring to.

Your certitude is remarkable. :clap

 

[Jonathan Hoffman]

Me? misunderstand the text? No.
My comprehension of the text is fine without your help.
I fully understand who "he" and "him" are referring to.
Now if you didn't comprehend that...what can I say.

Please explain what you mean and how you know this.

 

[Rakhel]

Please explain what you mean and how you know this.

It is basic 9th grade English comprehension.
There is no need to over-think it.

 

[Jonathan Hoffman]

It is basic 9th grade English comprehension.
There is no need to over-think it.

. You are simply dismissing my post without addressing it

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

It is basic 9th grade English comprehension.
There is no need to over-think it.

I always knew Torah study was over-hyped. But, just for grins, ...

6. An enigmatic verse. According to Moshe of Korbin, Abraham felt that God had done him a favor, and act of tz'dakah, by giving him the capacity to have faith even when circumstances seemed bleak. Yaakov of Rakov understands the verse to mean instead that God credited Abraham with an act of tz'dakah, teaching people that there is a purpose to life, that life can be redeemed from frutility. Or we might understand Abraham's putting "his trust in the Lord" to mean that he gave God the benefit of the doubt, believing not only in God's existence but in God's reliability, even when circumstances might have led him to think otherwise. The only thing we can do for God, the only thing for which God depends on us, is to hold on to our faith even when things do not go our way. This is Abraham's tz'dakah (favor) to God.

- Etz Hayimhttp://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/etz-hayim-david-l-lieber/1100568679

Of course, in all fairness, I suspect that neither Moshe of Korbin nor Yaakov of Rakov possessed a basic 9th grade English comprehension.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

The currently accepted translation states:
Gen 15:6 And he (Abram) believed in the LORD; and he(God) counted it to him (Abram) for righteousness.

But could the correct translation be:
And he (Abram) believed in the LORD; and he (Abram) counted it to Him (God) for righteousness.

In other words, Abram believed that God would really fulfill His promise to make Abram a father to many offspring (in Gen 15:4,5) and praised His righteousness for making these promises.

Under the circumstances, isn't it reasonable to say Abram was recognizing and praising the faithfulness, truthfulness and righteousness of his God?

So think about this and consider whether this verse was mistranslated. After all, many other verses have been mistranslated in the Bible.

Wow, you are right! all translators were idiots until you. Where did you learn your impeccable ancient Hebrew?

 

[Jonathan Hoffman]

I learned of this alternate translation from the writings of Ramban, a 13th century Jewish sage also known as Nachmonides.

 

[Desert Snake]

I learned of this alternate translation from the writings of Ramban, a 13th century Jewish sage also known as Nachmonides.

What is the importance of the semantical difference?