Was Constantine right?

[Ceridwen018]

Mankind is not 'hell-bent on destruction'. The proper idea would be that all living things have a beginning and an end, and so it is inevitable that someday our planet will expire. This is nothing but a natural process, however, and should not be confused with the work of 'satan'.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The Way was a sect of the Jews, Jewish except they believed in the Messiah/I am the Way.

And your evidence for the existence of this sect is what precisely?

 

[Ronald]

Mankind is not 'hell-bent on destruction'. The proper idea would be that all living things have a beginning and an end, and so it is inevitable that someday our planet will expire. This is nothing but a natural process, however, and should not be confused with the work of 'satan'.

You do not share the view of M.A.D/mutual assured destruction, an atomic destruction?

We will just run out of every thing, the sun will go out and it will be over.

How sad! Where is hope in such a life, why bother to live at all?
You are welcome to keep all of that world you can grab, cheat and rob puny people of, I don't choose to be a part of your world.

 

[Lightkeeper]

If you study the universe, you will see that stars burn out. This will happen to our sun. You ask where is the hope in that? There are no guarantees on any given day in life. I enjoy life while I have it. I believe our space exploration will lead us to other places to live before the sun burns out. The hope is in the opportunity to learn and make a difference. If you study the human race from the beginning of time we find explorers and builders. To recoin and old phrase, "if life is inevitable, relax and enjoy it."

 

[Ronald]

And your evidence for the existence of this sect is what precisely?

With a handle of a book of the Torah, I am rather amazed you not reading in the second book attributed to Dr. Luke, where-in a certain Pharisee Rabbi Saul from Tarsus with a warrant issued by the Sanhedrin to arrest everyone of the Way, to bring them to Jerusalem to be flogged and tried for heresy! Then as he made his way to Damascus, he encountered a ressurrected being!

Is this the proof you needed for this Way? A sect of the Jews.
You would do well to read the whole book of Acts of the Apostles, but if you are strapped for time Acts 9:1-31.

If this does not suffice, come back and I will show you more proof.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

And your evidence for the existence of this sect is what precisely?

Actually, Deut. I think Ronald is correct on this--the earliest Christians were called "followers of the Way" before they were called "Christians" and were considered a Jewish sect. We learned this in theology class, though I am having a hard time finging reference for this on the internet.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

With a handle of a book of the Torah, I am rather amazed you not reading in the second book attributed to Dr. Luke, where-in a certain Pharisee Rabbi Saul from Tarsus with a warrant issued by the Sanhedrin to arrest everyone of the Way, to bring them to Jerusalem to be flogged and tried for heresy!

And I am rather amazed at your childishly arrogant tone and pretentious verbiage. But, if fact, my question was far too vague, for which I apologize. Let me try again: Do you have any extra-biblical evidence relevant to this specific Jewish sect?

I see absolutely no reason why references to the "Way" cannot be taken as references to a broad and variegated eschatological movement that characterized the latter days of the Second Temple period. Furthermore, I see absolutely no reason to take 'Luke' at face value. This is particularly true with respect to a Damascus narrative which stains credulity. In fact, while you're supplying your extra-biblical references, perhaps you could also supply any evidence suggesting that the Sanhedrin had legal jurisdiction beyond the eleven Toparchies of Judea, in the absence of which Paul's warrant would serve only as a preposterous affront to the Roman polity.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Actually, Deut. I think Ronald is correct on this--the earliest Christians were called "followers of the Way" before they were called "Christians" and were considered a Jewish sect.

I'm sure you believe this to be true. You may find, however, that there is very little to tie the Jewish sect (or sects) to the stories of Paul and Luke. So, for example, did this Way include the Qumran community? The Essens? What about the Baptists. What about the Sicarii and Zealots? People who deign to instruct others on these movements should actually break down and read something beyond Acts.

 

[Ronald]

And I am rather amazed at your childishly arrogant tone and pretentious verbiage. But, if fact, my question was far too vague, for which I apologize. Let me try again: Do you have any extra-biblical evidence relevant to this specific Jewish sect?

I see absolutely no reason why references to the "Way" cannot be taken as references to a broad and variegated eschatological movement that characterized the latter days of the Second Temple period. Furthermore, I see absolutely no reason to take 'Luke' at face value. This is particularly true with respect to a Damascus narrative which stains credulity. In fact, while you're supplying your extra-biblical references, perhaps you could also supply any evidence suggesting that the Sanhedrin had legal jurisdiction beyond the eleven Toparchies of Judea, in the absence of which Paul's warrant would serve only as a preposterous affront to the Roman polity.

It is my oppinion, I am sorry you took it as childishly arrogant. Your question was abrupt and as if you were unaware of The Way.
Had you asked for proof other than the book of Acts, My resopnse would have been much slower and much different.

All the outside books point back to the book of Acts. I have no sources but the Bible. This Bible I rely on as Truth. I have no reason to disbelieve, so I accept it as Truth.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I'm sure you believe this to be true. You may find, however, that there is very little to tie the Jewish sect (or sects) to the stories of Paul and Luke. So, for example, did this Way include the Qumran community? The Essens? What about the Baptists. What about the Sicarii and Zealots? People who deign to instruct others on these movements should actually break down and read something beyond Acts.

So, are you saying the early Jewish-Christians were never called followers of "the Way"?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

So, are you saying the early Jewish-Christians were never called followers of "the Way"?

No. Certainly they are painted as such in Luke's construction. So?

Are you saying that the Essenes, etc., were never called followers of "the Way"? What of the Baptists and the Ebionites? What of the Zealots? Are you saying that you have reason to believe that the designation was specific rather than generic? Are you saying that you have any reliable knowledge of this movement/sect? Are you saying that you have any reason to accept the Damascus narrative? Are you saying that you have reason to take Luke as accurate history rather than story?

Ronald is simply pretending to know what he doesn't know, pedantically pawning off Luke as history with zero corroboration.

 

[harold e. rice]

You know, just for the heck of it, I'll state something on the first subject, lol. Why, I have no idea. If Christianity is forced as a law, people will hate it, never truly accepting it as their personal faith. It's like God forcing us to love Him. We wouldn't really be loving Him for who He is. We'd be loving Him for no perpose, only because He makes us. Love--or Christianity--can not truly be forced.

Emperor Constantine declared that any individual found worshipping God on Saturday (the true Sabbath) would be killed or thrown in Jail. This was after he changed the Sabbath to Sunday. In the early periods of Roman Christianity Jews as well as Gentiles was killed or beheaded for not converting to Christianity.
It you do a simply search you will find out that for many years God and Christianity was indeed forced on individuals under the penalty of death.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Emperor Constantine declared that any individual found worshipping God on Saturday (the true Sabbath) would be killed or thrown in Jail. This was after he changed the Sabbath to Sunday.

It was anti-Judaic Christians, not Constantine, who "changed the Sabbath to Sunday" or, more correctly, substituted the Lord's day for Shabbat.

 

[Ceridwen018]

The sabbath being changed from Sat. to Sun. is the least of the problems here when we're talking about changes made to Christianity over time, I think.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

"Are you saying that you have reason to take Luke as accurate history rather than story?"

I thought some of it was accurate, but I guess I was wrong.

 

[Ronald]

It was anti-Judaic Christians, not Constantine, who "changed the Sabbath to Sunday" or, more correctly, substituted the Lord's day for Shabbat.

Mountains of writings attest to the truth of both claims, Constantine and the Christians(anti-semitic).

Just one missing fact, God is silent on Sunday worship!

......No Sabbath cancellation notice!

And Yeshua says, Mt 4:4 "Man doesn't live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." Amein!

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Mountains of writings attest to the truth of both claims, Constantine and the Christians(anti-semitic).

Then reference some. The substitution of Sunday for Saturday is a well established component of the "replacement theology", e.g.,

Ignatius 110 A.D. wrote in his epistle to the Magnesians 9…" If they who were concerned in old things, arrived at a newness of hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living according to the Lord’s day, by which our life sprung from him and by his death (whom certain persons deny)…we have been made his disciples, let us live according to Christianity."

Barnabas 120A.D. "Wherefore, also, we keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day, also, on which Jesus rose again from the dead"

Justin Martyr 140 A.D. "Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness, made the world; and Jesus Christ our savior , on the same day rose from the dead."

Didache 80-90 A.D. "And on the day of our lords resurrection, which is the Lord’s day meet more diligently."

The shift to Sunday preceeded Constantine by at least two centuries.

 

[Ronald]

Mountains of writings attest to the truth of both claims, Constantine and the Christians(anti-semitic).

Just one missing fact, God is silent on Sunday worship!

......No Sabbath cancellation notice!

And Yeshua says, Mt 4:4 "Man doesn't live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." Amein!

No arguement, Deut. 32:8. My statement, "God didn't approve."
Man thinks to change times and the law. No one who (has not) the authority to change it (can on the calendar), but Gods Time and Law is still in effect till he changes it.
I will keep His Sabbath, till He says different. Each of you are free to do exactly what you wish. I will tell you what I believe, and why, you choose how you respond, I've done my duty. >>>No you must, from me!<<<