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Featured Was Bahaullah a "Bahai", please?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by paarsurrey, Apr 21, 2019.

  1. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    Meaningless repetitive question your record is cracked. please make the discussion meaningful.
    Ask Baha'u'llah.
     
  2. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    Your link points out that the Baptism of John was different to the ritual immersions practiced by the Jews and states, “John the Baptist pioneered the rite of water baptism practiced in most churches today”.

    I put the following questions to you.
    1. Was Moses baptised?
    2. Was Muhammad baptised?
     
  3. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    Baha’i means follower of Baha’u’llah. Baha’u’llah was a Manifestation of God not a follower. He was a Servant Of God.
     
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  4. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Yes, he was a born Shia-Twelver-Muslim, got converted to Babi sect of Twelver-Shia-Muslim. When he married Gawhar Khanum he might have been still as such. We cannot say for sure of what religion he became in post-Iqan period. May be he had none at all,as he got Covenant from others, yet he was not a part of it, others ascribed Bahaism to him, but he never said his religion's name was "Bahaism". Right, please?

    Regards
     
  5. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    Baha’u’llah referred to His followers as the “people of Baha” which is really just a longer way of saying Baha’i anyway.
     
  6. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    Baha'i adjectiv, Bahaism \ bä-ˈhä-ˌi-zəm, -ˈhī-ˌi- \ noun Bahaist \ bä-ˈhä-(ˌ)ist\ noun or adjective

    The First Known Use of Baha'i
    1889, in the meaning defined above.

    History and Etymology for Baha'i -
    Persian bahā'ī, literally, follower of Bahā' Allāh (from Arabic, splendor of God)

    Definition of BAHA'I

    In English-language use, the word Bahá'í is used either as an adjective to refer to the Bahá'í Faith or as a term for a follower of Bahá'u'lláh. The word is not a noun meaning the religion as a whole. It is derived from the Arabic Bahá‘ (بهاء), meaning "glory" or "splendor"

    Yes in many writings and Abdul'Baha means 'Servant of Baha'.

    Regards Tony
     
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  7. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Why should we not listen to the Babi-Twelver-Shia-Muslims, the other side of the picture, please? At least there are two of them here in the Forum, if not many.

    Right, please?

    Regards
     
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  8. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    Lets then consider the foundation of truth offered by the 'other side'.

    In the time of the Bab and many times since, those shia that persecuted the Bab'i and then the Baha'i, broke many oaths aimed at reconciliation, all those oaths were sworn on the Quran. The Bab'i and Baha'i on the other hand submitted to the those oaths given on the Quran in respect for the Word of Allah and where then slaughtered against the oaths.

    As the Bab'i and Baha'i have kept their oaths, why give any credit to those that broke their oaths given on the Quran?

    Regards Tony
     
  9. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Jesus was a Jew all through his life.
    Christ was a mythical figure existing in Egyptians, Romans and Babylonians it has nothing to do with Jesus or his teachings. Pauline-Christianity is what has been described as "Pagan-Christ"-ianity.
    Jesus' case of being "First-Christian" is therefore a fallibility of Bahaullah and Abdul-Baha, Shoghi Effendi and UHJ.

    Bahaullah's case is ,therefore, different, please. Bahaullah was neither a "First-Bahai" nor a "Bahai" nor a Muslim. During the post-Iqan period, Bahaullah had perhaps no-religion. Right, please?

    Regards
     
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  10. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    No,please!!!!

    This all is based on a corrupted biased Islamic view that Christianity and the Baha'i Faith are not legitimate religions. These assertions on your part are well understood from the beginning of every thread you post. A very one-sided discussion on your part.

    Baha'u'llah corrected the unfortunate view of many Muslims that Jesus was not the 'Christ,' and Christianity is not a legitimate religion.

    I believe a more legitimate Islamic view is that Islam acknowledges, protects and respects the believers of Judaism and Christianity, and acknowledges Jesus Christ as a prophet.
     
    #130 shunyadragon, May 6, 2019
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
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  11. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Jesus was a Jewish-Prophet-Messenger of G-d, not at all a Christian one.

    Regards
     
  12. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    Which fulfilled the prophecies as Jesus Christ, and began the Christian religion. The beginning was the Baptism by John the Baptist initiating the the first sacrament of Christianity, the Baptism.

    Your anti-Christian and anti-Baha'i agenda is more than apparent in every thread you post. Repeatingly asserted your anti-Christian and anti-Baha'i agenda does nothing other than confirming your religious agenda.
     
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  13. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    The corruption of Christianity concerning the nature of God, like the corruption of Judaism and Islam as egocentric tribal culture bound religions does not detract from the fact that Jesus Christ was the founder of a a religion, Christianity.
     
  14. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    "Manifestation of God" is a term coined by Bahaullah himself and used by him frequently for his own self. Except for the errant Pauline-Pagan-Christianity we don't find this term so frequently used by other messengers of God like Moses and Muhammad.
    Did Bahaullah coin this term and use it so often for himself as claiming of messenger/prophet of G-d in a straightforward and unequivocal form it would have entailed a death-penalty from G-d to Bahaullah?
    Right, please?

    Regards
    _____________
    From Torah:

    Deuteronomy 18:20 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
    20 “‘But if a prophet presumptuously speaks a word in my name which I didn’t order him to say, or if he speaks in the name of other gods, then that prophet must die.’
    Bible Gateway passage: Deuteronomy 18:20 - Complete Jewish Bible

    Quran:
    AYAH al-Haqqah 69:44-46
    Sher Ali[​IMG] And if he had forged and attributed any sayings to US,
    We would, surely, have seized him by the right hand,
    And then, surely, WE would have cut his life-vein,​
    al-Haqqah 69:46
     
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  15. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    It just logical reasoning that we learn more through a new Messenger in this 'Day of God'.

    Christ has said;

    John 16:12-14 "
    12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. 13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

    We now can see What Christ meant when He said, "The Father and I are One".

    Regards Tony
     
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  16. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    Manifestation is simply the English for what is made manifest. A manifestation of God would be what God made manifest through a prophet or Messiah figure. .

    I do not think Baha'u'llah used the words: Manifestation of God, but possibly used a Persian or Arabic equivalent.
     
    #136 shunyadragon, May 7, 2019
    Last edited: May 7, 2019
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  17. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    One should have known what Persian/Arabic words Bahaullah used. Kindly ascertain it and then let us know, please.
    Bahaullah should have used the words messenger/prophet (rasul/nabiyy), the most commonly understood words, yet he did not do it and coined other words. Right, please?
    Perhaps he had no message from God or he had no revelation from G-d, so he could not truly use these words for himself. Right, please?

    Regards
     
    #137 paarsurrey, May 7, 2019
    Last edited: May 8, 2019
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  18. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    You cannot make the assumption what words he used in the Arabic or Persian, simply based on the English translation. I am not particularly concerned, because it fits the theme of progressive revelation described by Baha'u'llah, which you reject, but it is a big deal with you. To boot you do not recognize Christianity and the Baha'i Faith, which creates a gap of communication that is not easily resolvable.
     
  19. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    I believe - مظاهر الله mazahir allah may be a translation that works, maybe.
     
  20. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    Baha’u’llah is not God.

    Certain ones among you,” He declared, “have said: ‘He it is Who hath laid claim to be God.’ By God! This is a gross calumny. I am but a servant of God Who hath believed in Him and in His signs…(Baha’u’llah)
     
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