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Featured Was Bahaullah a "Bahai", please?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by paarsurrey, Apr 21, 2019.

  1. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    I find it very hilarious as to how time stands still for monotheists. Before the CE, there was Zoroaster, In the First Century, Jesus claiming to be the son of God; in Seventh, Mohammad said he was a messenger of God; in nineteenth Century there were three - Joseph Smith, Bahaullah and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, notables among the multitude of others. Same old story, the world never changed for them.
     
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  2. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
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    Yes you are right. Every time God sends His Messenger, it has been shown that the world does not on a broad scale change for them. Each time they have brought a New Heaven and a new earth, despite that neglect of humanity, they have changed the world.

    It is a vast difference.

    Regards Tony
     
  3. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Veteran Member
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    He was born a Muslim then accepted the Bab then in 1852, two years after the Bab’s martyrdom, received the revelation from God.
     
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  4. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Veteran Member
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    He became a Bábí.
     
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  5. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    I understand that Bab was Shayki /Esoteric/Mysticism Twelver Shia Muslim and Bahaullah became his follower.
    In that case the question remains to be answered, when did Bahaullah renounce Muslim and converted to no-religion, please?

    Regards
     
    #45 paarsurrey, Apr 23, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
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  6. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Veteran Member
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    Baha’u’llah was a Muslim until He became a Bábí. He always had a religion. All His Life He was a believer in God and religion.
     
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  7. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    "While engulfed in tribulations I heard a most wondrous, a most sweet voice, calling above My head. Turning My face, I beheld a Maiden — the embodiment of the remembrance of the name of My Lord — suspended in the air before Me. So rejoiced was she in her very soul that her countenance shone with the ornament of the good-pleasure of God, and her cheeks glowed with the brightness of the All-Merciful. Betwixt Earth and Heaven she was raising a call which captivated the hearts and minds of men. She was imparting to both My inward and outer being tidings which rejoiced My soul, and the souls of God's honored servants. Pointing with her finger unto My head, she addressed all who are in Heaven and all who are on Earth saying: "By God! This is the best beloved of the worlds, and yet ye comprehend not. This is the Beauty of God amongst you, and the power of His sovereignty within you, could ye but understand." Maid of Heaven - Wikipedia

    That is not correct. Nobody outside his cell heard anything. Does anyone believe this fiction?
     
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  8. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Veteran Member
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    Thank you for quoting this very beautiful passage.

    By you quoting this passage you’ve already ensured that the Maiden has made this announcement to you and already added rightfully ‘could ye but understand’ which you appear not to thus far but I was the same at first.

    But subconsciously the world has heard I believe and set a course towards the goal of the oneness of all mankind. All sciences and all movements are headed towards unity and world cooperation which was the Message of Baha’u’llah so I believe subconsciously all humanity have sensed a new spirit stirring in this age that separates it from the ages of slaves and apartheid etc

    Here’s one passage which explains the mystical effect of the Words of God upon men’s hearts even though they are unaware of its effect.

    Whoso reciteth, in the privacy of his chamber, the verses revealed by God, the scattering angels of the Almighty shall scatter abroad the fragrance of the words uttered by his mouth, and shall cause the heart of every righteous man to throb. Though he may, at first, remain unaware of its effect, yet the virtue of the grace vouchsafed unto him must needs sooner or later exercise its influence upon his soul. Thus have the mysteries of the Revelation of God been decreed by virtue of the Will of Him Who is the Source of power and wisdom.

    So the announcement by the Maiden sooner or later has, is and will have an effect in every soul unaware thoug it may be.
     
    #48 loverofhumanity, Apr 23, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
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  9. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
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    We often are not aware of what our soul sees or hears in the spiritual worlds. That is because we handicap our own selves and become deaf and blind to spirirual realities.

    The Bible tells us we need to develop new eyes and new ears. That is the spiritual aspect of Faith.

    When it happened everyone did hear, but it was not with the outer ear and everyone did see but it was not with the outer eyes. How people react or did not react as to what was shown within their soul, is another story.

    A new Heaven and a New Earth was made, the mountains crumbled, the stars fell from heaven....etc...It all happened.

    The dream world is a hint to what is possible. In that state we hear without ears, we speak without mouths, we fly without wings. Then we wake up, do not remember at all, or forget most right away and it all fades in time as we carry on with life is a material world.

    Regards Tony
     
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  10. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Bab did not renounce Islam, there a is friend in the Forum who is a Babi, but he is a strong Muslim. I understand Bab used to pray/formal-Salat as other Shia-Muslim use to do, Bab did not renounce Islam, believed both parts of the Kalima (1.Oneness of God and 2.prophet-hood of Muhammad ).
    It means that Bahaullah remained a no-religion man between the period , he left religion-Islam in the pre-Iqan period and the Iqan-period. Till his followers announced Bahaullah to be follower of Bahaism in the post-Iqan period, please.

    Regards
     
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  11. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
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    Paarsurry.

    Siyyid `Alí Muhammad Shírází, born of the Holy Spirit, a Messenger from God was known as a Muslim of the Shia line until May 23rd AD1844, or AH 1260 2hrs and 11 minutes after sunset. At that moment He became the Bab founder of the Bab'i Faith and within 6 years the Muslims had Him executed to stop the spread of the Faith which had great influence on the multitudes. The Bab's mission was to prepare humanity for the 'One whom God would make manifest'.

    Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí born of the Holy Spirit, a Messenger from God was known as a Muslim of the Shia line until he accepted the Bab and became a Bab'i, a letter of the Living. The Bab had asked for a dispenstaion of 19 years and God granted that request. While a Bab'i Mírzá Ḥusayn was given a new name at a conference in 1848, a name the Lord gave was the name of 'Baha' (Baha'u'llah). While a Bab'i he was cast into the black pit a infamous prision. At that time in 1852 Baha'u'llah, received his mission as the 'One Whom God would make Manifest'.
    In 1863 Baha'u'llah publically declared His mission from God. That fulfilled the 19 year request of the Bab and the Baha'i Faith was born.

    That is a short detailed summary and I hope that makes it clear.

    Regards Tony
     
  12. Komori

    Komori Member

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    If you study the Bāb's writings, he never refers to his religion as the "Babi Faith" or anything along those lines but rather articulates all of his claims within an Islamic framework. He is in no way non-Islamic per se, but rather post-Islamic, Islamic in the same sense that post-Keynesian economics is Keynesian, if you would. The term the Bāb adopts is bayān, which, if you study the more esoteric traditions of the Shī'ah Imāms, this is nothing but a higher expression of the eternal essence of Islam. The Bāb was a Twelver Shī'ah through and through, and he and his followers did not see themselves as in opposition to Islam; they saw themselves as the true Muslims.
     
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  13. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
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    One will find the same thing with all Faiths.

    The Messenger did not name the followers, they became known because of their Faith.

    A Muslim is 'Submitter to Allah, as a follower of Muhammad and the Quran. A Christain submits to God as a follower of Christ and the Word from God. A Bab'i submits to God/Allah as a follower of the Bab and His Writingss. A Baha'i submits to God as a follower of Baha'u'llah and His writings from God. In the last 3 mentioned, that also means being a follower of all Gods Messengers. In that sense we are also all Muslim.

    As such, no Messenger of God has ever been in opposition of another Messenger. The source is One God.

    Regards Tony
     
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  14. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Veteran Member
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    Why would the Bab renounce Islam as He claimed to be the Promised One of Islam. Baha’u’llah became a follower of the Bab and always had a religion.
     
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  15. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    In this context the Bab was the first follower of the "light" or "glory" for the New Age.
     
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  16. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    He did not renounce Islam just as Christ and Muhammad did not renounce did not renounce Judaism.
     
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  17. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    It is important to know. When one joins Islam one openly with his words recites Kalima (1. Acknowledges Oneness of God and 2.prophet-hood of Muhammad) and starts offering prayers etc and doing the religious actions like Salat as told in Quran and done by Muhammad.
    In other words when did Bab and or Bahuallah cease to pray Salat like they used to do as Shia-Twelver-Muslims do or the Sunni-Muslims do.
    It is the same question in other words, please.

    Regards
     
  18. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    Most definitely Baha'u'llah acknowledges the Oneness of God, and the prophethood of Muhammad, as do all the Baha'is. Baha'u'llah prayed daily and required all Baha'is to pray daily in various forms of Baha'i prayers or 'Salat' - Ritual daily prayer, called Obligatory daily prayers in English. In different Revelations of God such as, Judaism and Christianity different obligatory prayers are required over the Millennia. Muhammad did not consider the Jews any less of the faithful, because they recited different daily prayers. Each Revelation of God through Millennia revealed prayers to recite daily, but of course there were different daily prayers in each Revelation.
     
    #58 shunyadragon, Apr 23, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
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  19. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
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    I will have to look up again when the Qiblah was changed for both Bab and Baha'u'llah. While they were alive it was in the direction where they were at the time of prayer. It is now we turn to Bahji just outside Akka to where Baha'u'llah was laid to rest.

    Regards Tony
     
  20. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Veteran Member
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    Some references

    Baha'i Reference Library

    ادعية - دعاء - الدعاء - الصلاة - صلاة - ادعيه - المناجاة

    البهائية - الدين البهائي - البهائيه - البهائيين - البهائيون

    Tribute by Baha’u’llah to Muhammad

    "Blessing and peace be upon Him [Muhammad] through Whose advent Bathá [Mecca] is wreathed in smiles, and the sweet savours of Whose raiment have shed fragrance upon all mankind-- He Who came to protect men from that which would harm them in the world below. Exalted, immensely exalted is His station above the glorification of all beings and sanctified from the praise of the entire creation. Through His advent the tabernacle of stability and order was raised throughout the world and the ensign of knowledge hoisted among the nations. May blessings rest also upon His kindred and His companions through whom the standard of the unity of God and of His singleness was uplifted and the banners of celestial triumph were unfurled. Through them the religion of God was firmly established among His creatures and His Name magnified amidst His servants."

    - Tablets of Baha'u'llah revealed after the Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 16

    Tribute by Baha’u’llah to Jesus

    Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee. The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence 86 exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive, and resplendent Spirit.

    (Gleanings XXXVI)





     
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