Wars

[Augustus]

How is Soros a "puppet master of Zelensky"?

Flow chart:

Something happened -> Do you like it?

-> Yes: assign credit to whoever is responsible
-> No: it was George Soros

Repeat.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I think this is just about the stupidest commentary I have read on the Ukraine invasion to date.

Putin invaded because he wants to absorb Ukraine within Russia. This invasion was not fomented by some "military-industrial complex", nor does it have anything to do with anyone "profiting" from war.

There is just one "power" that is "using" people here and that power is Vladimir Putin.

I do think Putin is the primary problem here. But I do see Rafael de la Rubia's point here. How are we to make grounds towards peace when people profit insanely off of war, especially when the countries that support these companies head up the organization meant to maintain peace?

 

[Augustus]

How are we to make grounds towards peace when people profit insanely off of war, especially when the countries that support these companies head up the organization meant to maintain peace?

Countries would fight if they had planes, missiles, guns, swords or sticks with nails in them.

Generally, war is bad for business though.

So if we are making the argument that businesses lobbying for war is so powerful it starts wars, why do we not say that business lobbying against wars should be even better at preventing them?

 

[exchemist]

I do think Putin is the primary problem here. But I do see Rafael de la Rubia's point here. How are we to make grounds towards peace when people profit insanely off of war, especially when the countries that support these companies head up the organization meant to maintain peace?

Putin is the problem. Wars are generally due to aggressive behaviour by a head of state, or by some kind of clash of ideology - including religion (cf. 30 Years War)c. What majors wars can you cite that have been started by business? Was Napoleon a businessman?

There is also a big issue that is not being acknowledged here, which is the distinction between armed defence and fomenting war. It is not an idle distinction.

 

[Estro Felino]

I still don't see the connection.

How is Soros a "puppet master of Zelensky"?

I am sorry...it is not in English

George Soros ha aiutato Zelensky a diventare presidente dell'Ucraina attraverso una massiccia campagna di propaganda; ora sostiene il regime fantoccio che ha installato – NaturalNews.com ⋆ Green Pass News

 

[Debater Slayer]

This linked article and perspective below is written by a humanist. I am not a humanist. I agree with much the writer says, but ultimately I believe we need the Savior to rescue humanity from self-destruction. Nevertheless, I think he addresses an important point in the segment I am posting in quotes. There are powers manipulating the situation with Ukraine and Russia (and all wars). We are repeatedly only given partial information from the media, while there are so many more malevolent causes creating these wars.
What do you think?

“This is not a conflict between Ukrainians and Russians, any more than it is between Sahrawis and Moroccans, Palestinians and Jews, or between Shiites and Sunnis. The real conflict is between the powers that use people and countries by manipulating, oppressing and pitting them against each other for profit and gain. The real problem lies with those who profit from war, with the military-industrial complex, with those who want to maintain their power and heartless possession in the face of the needs of the dispossessed of the world, those majorities who struggle every day to build a dignified existence. This is a complex issue that is at the root of our history: the manipulation of populations in order to pit them against each other while there are sectors that remove them from power.

Let us remember that the 5 countries that have the right of veto in the United Nations also happen to be the 5 main arms producers in the world. Weapons demand wars and wars demand weapons…”

No more wars and a ban on nuclear weapons

All NATO countries have taken a major economic hit from the sanctions they have imposed on Russia in the wake of the Ukraine invasion. The outcome of the war has so far been the polar opposite of profit for them. The same is true for Russia itself, whose motivations for the war are clearly related to expansion rather than short-term economic gain.

The article is largely another example of the conspiracy-minded spin on global events that has been especially salient during the pandemic. It's a line of reasoning that places flashy mottos and assumptions of being privy to exclusive knowledge above factual accuracy and logical consistency.

 

[Revoltingest]

This linked article and perspective below is written by a humanist. I am not a humanist. I agree with much the writer says, but ultimately I believe we need the Savior to rescue humanity from self-destruction. Nevertheless, I think he addresses an important point in the segment I am posting in quotes. There are powers manipulating the situation with Ukraine and Russia (and all wars). We are repeatedly only given partial information from the media, while there are so many more malevolent causes creating these wars.
What do you think?

“This is not a conflict between Ukrainians and Russians, any more than it is between Sahrawis and Moroccans, Palestinians and Jews, or between Shiites and Sunnis. The real conflict is between the powers that use people and countries by manipulating, oppressing and pitting them against each other for profit and gain. The real problem lies with those who profit from war, with the military-industrial complex, with those who want to maintain their power and heartless possession in the face of the needs of the dispossessed of the world, those majorities who struggle every day to build a dignified existence. This is a complex issue that is at the root of our history: the manipulation of populations in order to pit them against each other while there are sectors that remove them from power.

Let us remember that the 5 countries that have the right of veto in the United Nations also happen to be the 5 main arms producers in the world. Weapons demand wars and wars demand weapons…”

No more wars and a ban on nuclear weapons

The old Military Industrial Complex conspiracy theory, eh.
Which company or companies directed Putin to invade
Ukraine? Let's see some real evidence.
There's one big problem with your theory....the lack of
heavy weaponry being sent to Ukraine. It would be
likely necessary to keep this war alive & expanded.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Countries would fight if they had planes, missiles, guns, swords or sticks with nails in them.

Generally, war is bad for business though.

So if we are making the argument that businesses lobbying for war is so powerful it starts wars, why do we not say that business lobbying against wars should be even better at preventing them?

Putin is the problem. Wars are generally due to aggressive behaviour by a head of state, or by some kind of clash of ideology - including religion (cf. 30 Years War)c. What majors wars can you cite that have been started by business? Was Napoleon a businessman?

There is also a big issue that is not being acknowledged here, which is the distinction between armed defence and fomenting war. It is not an idle distinction.

I am not suggesting businessmen started the war. Clearly Putin's imperialistic desires are to blame here.

But simultaneously I don't dismiss that there is a conflict of interest where arms dealers make billions from defense spending from military budgets of nations that are on thhe UN Security Council.

They are a business that absolutely profits from war and appear insulated from other economic problems:

10 companies profiting most from war

 

[Debater Slayer]

The old Military Industrial Complex conspiracy theory, eh.
Which company or companies directed Putin to invade
Ukraine? Let's see some real evidence.
There's one big problem with your theory....the lack of
heavy weaponry being sent to Ukraine. It would be
likely necessary to keep this war alive & expanded.

One slippery aspect of conspiracy theories is that any lack of evidence can be chalked up to a "cover-up" or some other sinister plot by the powers that be.

While this sometimes happens in genuine conspiracies, it's also a common ace in the hole for unfounded conspiracy theories and unevidenced speculation.

 

[viole]

I do not side with billionaires who take advantage of governments through shady financial speculations.
Jesus chased away these men with a whip from the temple.
My sources are the Gospels.

You rather take side with mass killer of women and children, instead.

ciao

- viole

 

[Heyo]

Countries would fight if they had planes, missiles, guns, swords or sticks with nails in them.

Generally, war is bad for business though.

So if we are making the argument that businesses lobbying for war is so powerful it starts wars, why do we not say that business lobbying against wars should be even better at preventing them?

Because it only takes one to create strife but it takes all to maintain harmony.

 

[Heyo]

Putin is the problem. Wars are generally due to aggressive behaviour by a head of state, or by some kind of clash of ideology - including religion (cf. 30 Years War)c. What majors wars can you cite that have been started by business? Was Napoleon a businessman?

You (and all those who dismiss the MIC "conspiracy theory") are falling into the black and white fallacy. There have been wars started by megalomanic leaders, like Napoleon and Putin. There where other wars entirely fought over resources and business, like the opium wars or Iraq. And there were mixed bags like WWII.

 

[ChristineM]

How did you manage to come up with this steaming pile of laughable crap?

Because Soros.. more to say

 

[Revoltingest]

One slippery aspect of conspiracy theories is that any lack of evidence can be chalked up to a "cover-up" or some other sinister plot by the powers that be.

While this sometimes happens in genuine conspiracies, it's also a common ace in the hole for unfounded conspiracy theories and unevidenced speculation.

In this case, there's the enormous problem of identifying
just how the military materiel companies are controlling
all the leaders of all these countries. There'd be some
evidence of such a massive effort. But none is offered.
And as I said before, with all this control, why are they
denying Ukraine the heavy weaponry they need.

 

[Augustus]

There where other wars entirely fought over resources and business, like the opium wars or Iraq.

Neither of those was entirely, or even predominately, fought over resources or business.

 

[Estro Felino]

You rather take side with mass killer of women and children, instead.

ciao

- viole

I do not. I condemn any war and the violations of the fundamental human rights. I am just amazed by how there is this obsession with this war, when the world is filled with violations of fundamental human rights.
Certain countries where homosexuals, atheists are executed.

I only see doublestandardism, shamelessly normalized.

 

[ChristineM]

I only see doublestandardism, shamelessly normalized.

Bingo

 

[Revoltingest]

I do not. I condemn any war and the violations of the fundamental human rights. I am just amazed by how the Left is so obsessed with this war, when the world is filled with violations of fundamental human rights.
Certain countries where homosexuals, atheists are executed.

I only see doublestandardism, shamelessly normalized.

Human rights problems in countries that are at relative
peace are indeed a problem. But these aren't as pressing
or immediately addressable as Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
Putin is destroying hundreds of thousands of homes, &
sending those who are still alive into other countries as
refugees.
What I find shameless is the apologetics for Putin, his
war, & his war crimes. Blame everyone else....NATO,
USA, capitalism, Military Industrial Complex conspiracy,
& general disdain for Russia. And now the whataboutism
of the sort..."But there is injustice in other countries too!"
Anything to let Putin off the hook, eh.

 

[Heyo]

Neither of those was entirely, or even predominately, fought over resources or business.

So what were they fought over? Of course there were excuses and alleged reasons but they all turned out as mere propaganda lies. And even so it is a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy to argue, the winners in the end were the businesses.

 

[Revoltingest]

So what were they fought over? Of course there were excuses and alleged reasons but they all turned out as mere propaganda lies. And even so it is a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy to argue, the winners in the end were the businesses.

Which businesses controlled which leaders?

If we can invent conspiracies without evidence,
then let's blame the Jews. We know they're behind
all the strife & war. Or the commies. Socialists need
chaos to foment revolutions to impose their dystopia
upon us. Secret Marxist cabals are pulling Putin's
strings. Or.....

There's another easily dismissed obvious explanation
for Putin invading Ukraine.....Putin wants it for Russia.