War

[Majikthise]

Every conflict ever, in the history of man has been about Divine Right.

This won't leave me alone.I've got jumbled ideas about cavemen and fighter pilots in my mind.

Is this strictly a secular view point?

Is this negative or positive?

 

[Scott1]

Divine Right?

huh?

 

[Majikthise]

More thoughts.

Animals don't "ooooo" and "aaaaaahhhhh" ,like humans do. They are pure in the sense that they are driven by survival alone.Not that man is not driven by suvival , but survival instinct has to share a room with imagination and wonder.This union leads to thoughts beyond the here and now.And that is sometimes a great curse.How long will this [life] last?When did it begin.And now we regress.Who or what made all this? Made ME!!!???

And so Man created god in his own image.And different Men had different images of god.Each one believed his image was the right one and any others must be out to Destroy his giver of life.They must be stopped.They must be shown The Way.For God is a giver of life and abhors death ,unless it is of his own making.

More later.

 

[Pah]

Wars are sometimes fought for territory and political power

 

[Majikthise]

Territorial conflicts are fought over the idea of a group(weak definition, I know) belief that thier way should be everyone's way.But then there's atheist Russia. Could the majority of those people really have been atheists? Not likely.

Just a thought anyway.

Politics. Separation of church and state in absolution is a pipe dream. Everything is tainted by religion.

 

[Yerda]

Everything is tainted by religion.

Is it?

 

[Quoth The Raven]

Territorial conflicts are fought over the idea of a group(weak definition, I know) belief that thier way should be everyone's way.But then there's atheist Russia. Could the majority of those people really have been atheists? Not likely.

Repression of religion just drove the religious to practice in secret. Just because the State tells you you must not believe, that doesn't take away your belief, you just keep it to yourself.

 

[Majikthise]

Wow! I wonder what I was on when I started this thread?

 

[retrorich]

More thoughts.

Animals don't "ooooo" and "aaaaaahhhhh" ,like humans do.

No, but they do moooooo and baaaaaaah.

 

[Valjean]

Hominids are naturally "warlike" -- it's hard-wired into our genes.

During the Pleistocene epoch, when our psychology was formed, we lived in small bands of hunter-gatherers. Survival was best served by intense in-group solidarity and aggression towards neighboring bands competing for resources.

In a modern, civilized world, this nature is deleterious. Schools and governments should continually remind us of these occult motives so that we are aware of them and can make appropriate political and behavioral adjustments. We must not allow our neolithic right hemispheres to influence important decisions.

 

[Quiddity]

In a modern, civilized world, this nature is deleterious

Would it not be deleterious in any world? Even for hominids? If not, why not?

~VIctor

 

[Yerda]

Would it not be deleterious in any world? Even for hominids? If not, why not?

~VIctor

Securing resources is necessary to the survival of your genes. Your family members share many of these genes.

 

[Quiddity]

Securing resources is necessary to the survival of your genes. Your family members share many of these genes.

So the only reason they were "war-like" is because they were fighting over a piece of meat?

~Victor

 

[Arkangel]

Meat is not one of them. By meat i think you mean food. Basic human needs are just food, shelter, and reproduction. War is more than basic human needs. Even ants have war. So you can rule out only humans having war. Ants fight over territory. They send out their soldier ants and scouts to on raids to a neighboring ant colony and steel their young and cattle. Did you know ants domesticate other insects for food and resources like we do with cows and sheep (it is a fact).

War is just one more way of ensuring your colony survives. It is not a basic need. It is a collective need as a society. Individual humans do not have wars; they have fights but not wars. War is fought between societies, communities, nations, and religion. It is a way to ensure your survival by that I mean the survival of your beliefs, ideologies, and philosophies. People die, societies die, communities die, nations die, and even religions die. But beliefs, ideologies and philosophies they rarely die. There has been no war that has been outside the realm of belief, ideology, or philosophy. If there has been, please show me which one.

 

[Quiddity]

Meat is not one of them. By meat i think you mean food.

Yup.

Basic human needs are just food, shelter, and reproduction.

Isn't something like security, love, etc. human needs? Does this play a role?

War is more than basic human needs.

That is what I meant by my comment above.

Even ants have war. So you can rule out only humans having war. Ants fight over territory. They send out their soldier ants and scouts to on raids to a neighboring ant colony and steel their young and cattle. Did you know ants domesticate other insects for food and resources like we do with cows and sheep (it is a fact).

I hope you can see that this can be explained away by saying that in every instance they behave in such a way due to the need of resources.

War is just one more way of ensuring your colony survives. It is not a basic need. It is a collective need as a society. Individual humans do not have wars; they have fights but not wars. War is fought between societies, communities, nations, and religion. It is a way to ensure your survival by that I mean the survival of your beliefs, ideologies, and philosophies. People die, societies die, communities die, nations die, and even religions die. But beliefs, ideologies and philosophies they rarely die. There has been no war that has been outside the realm of belief, ideology, or philosophy. If there has been, please show me which one.

True.

~Victor

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

In the days of the hunter gatherers the population of the world was tiny.
deep vegetation of one type or another covered most of the known world.
There was no land pressure at all. There was Game and food for every one if they worked for it.
I suspect war was invented to gain slaves and wives to do the work, not to win land.
I suspect their life style was more like the native Americans with a deep respect of the land and animals.
As values changed so to did the aims of war.
A nomadic hunter gatherer has no use for many possessions, he has to carry them with him.

Cities and agriculture changed all that.
It is easier to take someone elses fields and towns than build your own.
Now there was something worth the risk of war.
War came because men were Lazy,Greedy,and avaricious.

Terry
____________________________________--
Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.

 

[huajiro]

Hominids are naturally "warlike" -- it's hard-wired into our genes.

During the Pleistocene epoch, when our psychology was formed, we lived in small bands of hunter-gatherers. Survival was best served by intense in-group solidarity and aggression towards neighboring bands competing for resources.

In a modern, civilized world, this nature is deleterious. Schools and governments should continually remind us of these occult motives so that we are aware of them and can make appropriate political and behavioral adjustments. We must not allow our neolithic right hemispheres to influence important decisions.

I have to say that I have learned something, I am rarely speechless to the point that I have nothing better to say such as this moment. Frubals your way.

 

[Fire Empire]

I suspect war was invented to gain slaves and wives to do the work, not to win land.

Well, war wasn't really an invention--more like a development. But this is true...war has never been about land, specifically. War is about about power. Every society (just like every person) falls into a place in the human dominance heirarchy. That place is not static, although in some cases it may last for a very long time. The ones at the top want to keep their position because the higher they are, the more resources and mating opportunities they'll have. This goes for any species. War is often waged because those at the bottom are always seeking to move up the dominance ladder, one way or another. Beliefs / ideas / memes merely encourage people to fight for what they natuarlly desire, like paper thrown on an already smoldering fire.

I suspect their life style was more like the native Americans with a deep respect of the land and animals.

But not each other, apparently. Native americans were never any less savage than modern warriors. War is hard wired into all humans.

 

[Sunstone]

Hominids are naturally "warlike" -- it's hard-wired into our genes.

***snip***
​

Schools and governments should continually remind us of these occult motives so that we are aware of them and can make appropriate political and behavioral adjustments. We must not allow our neolithic right hemispheres to influence important decisions.

I completely agree that schools and governments should remind us that our instincts can mislead us. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening too often. Governments have a vested interest in playing to our instincts when they (the governments) wish to go to war. And when governments do so, the teacher that dares to contradict the government's line is usually called a fool, an idealist, and even unpatriotic.

 

[Quiddity]

......our instincts can mislead us....

Just nit-picking. Humans actually don't have instincts.

~Victor