War, the final battle.

[TransmutingSoul]

I resist the temptation to predict the future, yet alone the direction of divine providence. But if there is anything to Biblical prophecy then what will eventuate is clear. Humanity will divide into two diametrically opposed camps; the good and the bad. (Of course, the bad will see themselves as the good). And unfortunately, the majority will side with the bad. Evil will be called good and the good will be more and more denigrated.

On that final point I tentatively speculate that this is what is beginning to occur. In mere decades we've seen not just an acceptance of sin, but in many cases an enshrinement of it as a positive good to be celebrated. And being careful not view the past with rose tinted goggles, I do nonetheless think, at the very least, we've become (western society) increasingly vulgar in general. Whether we're approaching a crescendo of evil that culminates in the Final Judgment, or much like the Western Empire, modern civilization simply collapses under its own moral dysfunction is yet to be seen. Or maybe, it is all superstition and we're approaching some technological global utopia, who knows?

All you can do is to keep your own spiritual house in order and trust in God. In the end, God is the one in control. Evil will only go as far as God permits it to.

I agree we can not predict the future, at the same time I see the Holy books have given a fair vision of what we face. The Bible has some stern warnings, the Baha'i Writings contain some very graphic warnings.

I see Biblical Prophecy has been very accurate with history and I see the final battle continues.

It brings to mind the opening passage of a book, "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair...". (Tale of two Cities)

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Many Christian pastors believe that we are in the end times.

According to Revelation (in the bible), when President W. Bush attacked Iraq, that started us into the end times. There doesn't appear to be a way to stop it.

Many pastors are resigned to allow Global Warming because they feel that the world is ending anyway.

God sent psychics to remind us of what we already knew, that the world would end if W. Bush attacked Iraq. Yet, their warning went unheeded.

Christ is supposed to make a second coming, but what if people ignore Christ as must as they had ignored God's psychics?

All of the psychics of God, in recent times, saw dire images of future events, and many could not sleep for days, and begged God for the visions of the future to end

Personally Clara, I see we do miss the return and what is unfolding is a result of that. We have also been given many more warnings about what disunity will reap upon humanity and our planet.

Al the best, regards Tony

 

[loverofhumanity]

And it is.



Which doesn't mean that there isn't progress.

I agree. But I believe that is half the story that may be explained this way.

First the vision in this quote I ask you to consider as we seem to be in a time of ‘transition’ between the old ways and the new modern ways.

“Soon will the present day order be rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead" (Baha’u’llah)

These appear to be the two processes underway on our planet. Integration and disintegration, simultaneously.

A two-fold process... can be distinguished, each tending, in its own way and with an accelerated momentum, to bring to a climax the forces that are transforming the face of our planet. The first is essentially an integrating process, while the second is fundamentally disruptive. The former, as it steadily evolves, unfolds a System which may well serve as a pattern for that world polity towards which a strangely-disordered world is continually advancing; while the latter, as its disintegrating influence deepens, tends to tear down, with increasing violence, the antiquated barriers that seek to block humanity's progress towards its destined goal.

The ‘goal’ towards which humanity seems headed is that of a just order based on human rights that will bring peace and replace the old order of conflict. So long standing beliefs and principles are being challenged and sometimes painfully done away with. One of these is militant governments. They are desperately clinging on but people now are more united so they will be defeated after an enormous struggle as a new world begins to emerge just like the pain of childbirth.

I believe we are in a stage of transition, struggling to give birth to a new just order based upon human rights. It will probably be an almost replica of the American Civil War but on a universal scale. This time it’s not north vs south but east vs west. Result will be, I believe, a World Federation of Nations.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That would be impossible according to the scriptures.

I don't mean to offend you - but when He does come again it will be nothing like His first coming.

He will come suddenly while the world is unprepared - in great glory - from the sky and the wicked will be burned away and all the world shall see and know Him.

Personally I see that is how it has unfolded.

What the world now sees is a result of rejecting the Father.

That is another topic that has been discussed many times.

What will unfold is that, we as humanity, will face a series of Global crisis that are showing us we need to work together as one people.

These convulsions will culminate in a global event, a size an extent that is not known, it is quite possible 2/3 of mankind will not survive, as will not the cities built upon sand.

This event may be of our own doing, either because of war, or because we have mined this earth in such a way, that we aid the shaking of the earth on an unimaginably scale.

Then there are those that hope we will carry in the way we are, that all things are just as they should be.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

There are really two religious wars left Tony. In the very near future the battle of Armageddon which all Christians have prayed for it to come. This will remove the wicked from the earth including satan and the demons.

And that is not the final war, it will occur after satan is released from his prison after 1000 yrs of Kingdom rule. That war will result in the permanent destruction of satan and all those who choose to follow him.

I see those wars are well under way.

Personally I pray and wish for the good for all people.

Justice dictates that some will be punished for what they have done to others. I ask for them forgiveness, as they do not know what they are doing.

Regards Tony

 

[Fallen Prophet]

All of the governments of the world or just many of them? That never happenned in the history of mankind for all of our government and civilisation to collapse in the same period. The only event of similar magnitude was the Bronze Age collapse and even then. Egypt managed to weather the storm and emmerged at its most powerful.

The world has never ended before either - but that is what we are talking about.

The world's governments will fail and many people will fracture into warring tribes.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It will go on like it has through out the history of human existence. God or no God, messengers or no messengers. That does not make any difference.

Thee are many that would agree with you.

I hope for you and all people health, happiness and a life of peace with their needs met.

If we are around when the days get a bit darker, I hope yoy remember all a Baha'i wants for the world is Love and unity and the freedom for us to pursue that path.

Regards Tony

 

[Fallen Prophet]

And there will be chaos, yes?
That won't be a problem for life at all......... Chaos was the birthplace of life.
Life will spring..... to life.

There won't be any Gods stepping in then, not in chaos, not before chaos, not after chaos. But don't worry, because everything will be all right, because life will go on.

I disagree with all my heart and soul.

I believe that life and light came from the Lord Jesus Christ - not chaos.

There is literally no chaos in the Kingdom of God - of which we are a part.

When everything fails and all life cries out for salvation - He will come.

 

[loverofhumanity]

The violent imagery posted in this ghread by the OP suggests that an entirely Baha'i world wouldn't be an entirely peaceful world.


I've said the same thing in the context of atheism.

Thanks for your post. The Baha’is believe in peace as the main goal of our world but based upon justice. That there can be no peace until the rights of all the peoples of the world are guaranteed and protected legally.

So in a Bahá’í world, a government could not do what the Burmese military is doing today, slaughtering their own unarmed people including ambulance men and doctors. They would be brought to justice swiftly through the entire world unitedly using every means possible to destroy them and ensure the people are safe and secure.

Today, we see impunity by these murderers and war criminals because no one is willing to bring them to justice. So yesterday 38 innocent unarmed people were slaughtered by snipers and machine guns on Burmese streets and all we hear from the world are empty words.

The entire world is complicit in these atrocities as it has the ability to stop them but does nothing. The world should be ashamed.

These war criminals, each time they kill someone, rejoice and celebrate as if they have scored a try or touchdown. A Bahá’í world would never permit massacres like this.

 

[epronovost]

The world has never ended before either - but that is what we are talking about.

The world's governments will fail and many people will fracture into warring tribes.

I was mearely commenting that your view on apocalypse is at least a bit more reasonnable than that of the OP who seems to think that it's happening right now because everybody, but his preacher is lying or something like that.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What do you mean by cities being built on sand?

A big number of the Major cities around the world are built close to the ocean, or in or near big rivers.

The foundations are literally in sand. Any significant earthquake close to these cities will see the failure of these foundations. Liquefaction is a result and no foundation on sand will be adequate.

The way we mine this world, what we extract, I see has consequences in regard to natural phenomenon.

Science is finding cities are subsiding as groundwater is removed, we have very little knowledge of the consequences of our years of raping this earth for resources.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The world has never ended before either - but that is what we are talking about.

The world's governments will fail and many people will fracture into warring tribes.

I do not see the world will end, what I see ends and is destroyed is our material ways, allowing us to embrace our spiritual selves.

What I see will happen is, a civilization built in material gain will fall and a lot built in that pursuit is layed waste.

We can change our fate, but or requires us to find unity. I am afraid we have past a point of no return, we will face catastrophic change. The change is needed.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I disagree with all my heart and soul.

I believe that life and light came from the Lord Jesus Christ - not chaos.

There is literally no chaos in the Kingdom of God - of which we are a part.

When everything fails and all life cries out for salvation - He will come.

Yes indeed, that is true.

We as individuals and humanity as a whole have to face our neglect of what was offered by God's Messenger's.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The violent imagery posted in this ghread by the OP suggests that an entirely Baha'i world wouldn't be an entirely peaceful world.

The imagery posted in this thread are written warnings of what we face because of disunity.

The Baha'i world is working for unity.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So your God just lets so many tragedies and horrors happen?
OK

So just let millions suffer, eh?


So all this nonsense about your houses of justice being guided by God is simply pure bunkum?

We're on our own ?
Well, I'm a Deist so at least I've got that much right.

History shows us that God allows us free will to except the promise and ingnire the warnings. That is the nature of the world and free will.

Not sure why you brought up the Universal House of Justice. It has already been offered that the next sage of the evolution of man requires the Governments of the world to embrace unity. The Baha'i can only play a part in this as loyal citizens that support all efforts for unity and justice.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I figure doomsday predictors can't read history. There have been so many wonderful advancements in so many areas. It must be hard on a person's emotions to live in the city of pessimism.

Actually I am an optomist.

Being an optomist, involves taking a wide view of what needs to be done better, and acknowledging what is not so good.

One may say plastic was a great advancement, but how has that turned out? We are killing the ocean and it's creatures.

There are many things like that we can consider in such a manner, or just let it continue to happen in silence.

Regards Tony

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

First the vision in this quote I ask you to consider as we seem to be in a time of ‘transition’ between the old ways and the new modern ways.

“Soon will the present day order be rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead" (Baha’u’llah)

Does it really "seem to be" so, or do you merely "believe" it to be so by religious motivation?
Because I'm not seeing that at all. Instead, I see a steady and continous trend of societal process throughout human history, with occasional peaks and valleys, but with a trend of progress nonetheless.

The ‘goal’ towards which humanity seems headed is that of a just order based on human rights that will bring peace and replace the old order of conflict. So long standing beliefs and principles are being challenged and sometimes painfully done away with.

It seems to me that you could travel back in time to pretty much any time period of the last 8000 years and you could make the same claim.

I don't see how today is any different in that regard then times of change in the past.
It's a cliché and a stereotype, but just about every generation thinks the "new" generation is "degenerate" and "in my time it was all better!" while the new generation thinks the opposite of the previous generation.

One of these is militant governments. They are desperately clinging on but people now are more united so they will be defeated after an enormous struggle as a new world begins to emerge just like the pain of childbirth.

I believe we are in a stage of transition, struggling to give birth to a new just order based upon human rights. It will probably be an almost replica of the American Civil War but on a universal scale. This time it’s not north vs south but east vs west. Result will be, I believe, a World Federation of Nations.

This is just part of the trend and it has been going on for a long time, and will continue to go on for a long time.

I'm not seeing the "sudden" change you claim. Nor am I seeing a "massive conflict" about it like you claim.

Au contraire in fact. It's the citizens of the nations themselves that are standing up against their militant governments. As it should be. Freedom is not something that can be "given" to you. It's something you need to take yourself. One can't "force" enlightment upon people.

 

[oldbadger]

I disagree with all my heart and soul.

OK. I can acknowledge your faith.
Can you acknowledge my Deism?

I believe that life and light came from the Lord Jesus Christ - not chaos.

I believe that Jesus carried the Baptist's mission forward for about a year.

There is literally no chaos in the Kingdom of God - of which we are a part.

Everything is chaos, was chaos, will be chaos.
You do believe that everything will be chaos don't you?
See? We are closer than you thought.

When everything fails and all life cries out for salvation - He will come.

That part of God that is here is already here. That's all you're going to get, I'm afraid.
Our future is down to us.........

 

[oldbadger]

History shows us that God allows us free will to except the promise and ingnire the warnings. That is the nature of the world and free will.

History does not show us that God ever did allow us to do things or not to do things, Tony.
That is just something that some folks dream up.

Not sure why you brought up the Universal House of Justice.

I was replying to LoH, Tony.

It has already been offered that the next sage of the evolution of man requires the Governments of the world to embrace unity.

At one moment you tell us that we have free will, then you tell us what is required.

The Baha'i can only play a part in this as loyal citizens that support all efforts for unity and justice.

Regards Tony

Good luck with that, Tony

 

[exchemist]

A big number of the Major cities around the world are built close to the ocean, or in or near big rivers.

The foundations are literally in sand. Any significant earthquake close to these cities will see the failure of these foundations. Liquefaction is a result and no foundation on sand will be adequate.

The way we mine this world, what we extract, I see has consequences in regard to natural phenomenon.

Science is finding cities are subsiding as groundwater is removed, we have very little knowledge of the consequences of our years of raping this earth for resources.

Regards Tony

None of those cities are in earthquake zones.

Sure there are issues in some cities, and certainly rising sea levels may threaten some of them.