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Want to understand the Tanakh? Master Biblical Hebrew.

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
This view has been raised more than once, most recently by @buddhist and @Jedster.

It is nonsense.

I participate in a weekly Torah class which is currently working yet again through Genesis. I typically sit there with three different translations in front of me: Alter, Fox, and the [N]JPS Torah Commentary: Genesis. Others in the class may be referring to the Plaut Commentary, the Jewish Study Bible, the R.E. Friedman translation and commentary, Etz Hayim, the Stone Edition Tanach, or others. Much of the time the differing commentary is informative but not particularly critical, and the differences in translation are matters of nuance. In each such case a knowledge of Biblical Hebrew (BH) might allow for a greater appreciation of poetry and/or wordplay, but it is largely unnecessary to an understanding of the text.

Why is this? Because the translations and commentaries are pregnant with and convey the fruits of thousands upon thousands of hours of the best of scholarship in BH and related Semitic languages and - of near equal importance - are further informed by relevant studies of the surrounding societies of the Levant. It would take the best of us much of a lifetime to come close to such cumulative expertise.

But what of those cases where translations differ significantly?

Biblical Hebrew is very difficult linguistic archaeology. Understanding BH is a work in progress and translation differences of note typically reflect this difficulty. Furthermore, these differences are often a matter of ongoing peer-reviewed study. They are approachable, but not by spending a few years studying beginning BH with a dictionary and lexicon in hand. On the contrary, the best approach is to read these studies and reviews and, yes, that means reading them in English.

If you want to begin to understand Hebrew Scripture, try to avail yourself of the relevant scholarship instread of pretending that you can supplant it.

That said, if you're interested in a good BH text. I'll be glad to offer a recommendation. :)
 

Jedster

Well-Known Member
This view has been raised more than once, most recently by @buddhist and @Jedster.

It is nonsense.

I participate in a weekly Torah class which is currently working yet again through Genesis. I typically sit there with three different translations in front of me: Alter, Fox, and the [N]JPS Torah Commentary: Genesis. Others in the class may be referring to the Plaut Commentary, the Jewish Study Bible, the R.E. Friedman translation and commentary, Etz Hayim, the Stone Edition Tanach, or others. Much of the time the differing commentary is informative but not particularly critical, and the differences in translation are matters of nuance. In each such case a knowledge of Biblical Hebrew (BH) might allow for a greater appreciation of poetry and/or wordplay, but it is largely unnecessary to an understanding of the text.

Why is this? Because the translations and commentaries are pregnant with and convey the fruits of thousands upon thousands of hours of the best of scholarship in BH and related Semitic languages and - of near equal importance - are further informed by relevant studies of the surrounding societies of the Levant. It would take the best of us much of a lifetime to come close to such cumulative expertise.

But what of those cases where translations differ significantly?

Biblical Hebrew is very difficult linguistic archaeology. Understanding BH is a work in progress and translation differences of note typically reflect this difficulty. Furthermore, these differences are often a matter of ongoing peer-reviewed study. They are approachable, but not by spending a few years studying beginning BH with a dictionary and lexicon in hand. On the contrary, the best approach is to read these studies and reviews and, yes, that means reading them in English.

If you want to begin to understand Hebrew Scripture, try to avail yourself of the relevant scholarship instread of pretending that you can supplant it.

That said, if you're interested in a good BH text. I'll be glad to offer a recommendation. :)

Here is what I said
"If I really believed that a scripture was the direct word of God, I'd want to know exactly what he said; not someone's translation.
I know several Christians who have done this, (ie learnt both Hebrew & Greek) because of all the various schools of 'what is the correct translation'.
I also have met several converts to Judaism who learnt Hebrew."

I am not sure what you say in nonsense.
I think you may be projecting your own learning difficulties here.

I didn't specify how they learnt Hebrew and/or Greek, I just said they did.
They were clearly inspired by their own search for God/Truth.
Also I wasn't referring to 'understanding Tanach', I was simply referring to the translation.
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
Bible software is very expensive sometimes, however the 1917 JPS is available free online http://www.breslov.com/bible/ and available on paper for around 20$. http://biblehub.com/jps/. Rober Alter's translations are not 'Free'. Fox's translation is not free. Plaute's commentary is 70$ http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/torah-w-gunther-plaut/1115339835

I guess that by 'Friedman Translation' you refer to http://www.amazon.com/Sources-Revealed-Richard-Elliott-Friedman/dp/006073065X ? Is this a translation or just commentary?
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
Part of the difficulty I foresee is that the study of text is often not in a vacuum. While one could apply the rules of biblical Hebrew and create meaning, often the understanding, or choices made when confronted with a selection of potential interpretations/translations are driven by theological concerns. If I see a prefix of L- I know that the rules of biblical Hebrew allow me to translate it as "to" or "for" (let alone "on behalf of") and each has precedent. Simply studying ancient grammars would not resolve the intended meaning. Translation is interpretation.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I guess there is no such thing as a scholar who has MASTERED any ancient language. And those who are proficient at it I suppose it is their life's work. So I get it. Haha
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
ALL the people who wrote what some people think they know about have been dead for a very long time and nobody speaks their language any more. Do they? Has ancient Hebrew survived in places? If there are people speaking it presently then you are right I am wrong. Are you ever happy @Jayhawker Soule ?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I think what is funny is that it is not possible to master ancient anything.
Can you imagine resurrected with a person who had mastered his biblical language? Haha
In the end how many people in the history of the world had even mastered his or her own language? ROTFL
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It is obvious that there is a lack of communication between two people who have not mastered English yet.
Furthermore, understanding the peculiarities of ancient grammar is, as I have said, a work in progress.
And, when dealing with an ancient language, it is all translation laced with presumption.
 

buddhist

Well-Known Member
I don't recall stating that someone can completely master biblical Hebrew, nor that one can only truly understand the Tanak by learning Hebrew.

All I am advocating is that there are degrees of knowledge. A casual disciple who hears a sermon can claim to have a certain level of knowledge of his faith. Another disciple who hears many sermons might have a higher level of knowledge. Another who reads a translation can be said to have an even higher level of knowledge. One who reads many translations can be higher than that. One who studies and attempts to read the texts in the original languages can even be higher. One who spends a lifetime studying the language and original texts can be higher than that. And so forth.

Nobody - at least in this incarnation - can claim to have arrived at the "full truth" of mastery in the language and its texts. One can progressively come closer to it, however.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
All I am advocating is that there are degrees of knowledge. ...
You are also claiming an hierarchy in which the reading of Hebrew scripture in Hebrew is likely to produce a higher degree of knowledge than is a reliance on relevant scholarship. That is simply naive. A reading of Genesis 1.1 in BH is not likely to help you understand what it says, and knowing that בְּצֶלֶם אֱלֹהִים in Genesis 1.27 is Hebrew for "in God's image" does not tell you what it means.
 
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