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Want a Cheap Roof? Go Solar!

Discussion in 'Consumer Affairs' started by Sunstone, Jul 26, 2017.

  1. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
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    You estimate people's ethics more highly than do I.
    And those things leak.
    I hate any roof penetrations.
     
  2. ADigitalArtist

    ADigitalArtist Well-Known Member
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    Maintenance cost is in the total sale price, it buys the maintenance. You don't pay extra for it.
    As for financing and interest, yeah that can't really be covered as it depends on the plan.
    No gas or oil ever, lifetime maintenance, charge at home for pennies on the dollar or charge for free at any charge station nation wide are things that do make it cost effective.
     
  3. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
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    In my world, capital improvements are financed.
    If the rate of return is less than the interest rate, it's a bad investment.
    I see no analysis regarding that.
    For the price of a Tesla roof, I could install my steel roof, & use the difference to let earned interest pay for my electric bill, maintenance, & eventual replacement. But the Tesla roof also has costs of battery maintenance, battery replacement, electronics maintenance, electronics replacement. It still has the old issues of roofs, eg, plumbing boot maintenance. And will Tesla be around to honor its lifetime warranty? Risky.

    I've used battery & inverter technology before.
    Things fail. Things get replaced. Money is spent.
    It all must be taken into account.
     
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  4. ADigitalArtist

    ADigitalArtist Well-Known Member
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    The battery is optional and exists specifically to gather more than your usage, which you can sell back to the grid to pay for the eventual new battery (if the battery isn't a one time cost, I don't know that.)

    Tesla probably has a better chance of outliving your roofing company currently. Especially with, as you pointed out, so much government contracts.
     
  5. YmirGF

    YmirGF Bodhisattva

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    Yep. Had the roof replaced two years ago for about 15,000 dollars *Canadian*. Still, solar is the future.
     
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  6. Guy Threepwood

    Guy Threepwood Mighty Pirate

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    Far less make a profit, which they can't do even with the handouts
     
  7. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
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    I don't depend upon my roofing company's continued existence.
    The product itself has a record of long service life. Tesla's product
    lacks that, & its value depends upon honoring the warranty.
    Every battery & electrical technology I've ever seen has limited life.
    Where's @Wirey when we need'm!?

    And still, we see no financial analysis showing that a Tesla roof
    is cost effective. Buying it must be evaluated against competing
    expenditures, eg, energy conservation. All we have so far is
    Musk's glowing (self serving & deceptive) puffery. And his
    few proffered numbers suck.
     
  8. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
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    Aye, Musk is one of those corporate welfare recipients.
    But because his fancy spendy toys are fashionable because of their green energy
    veneer, he escapes criticism from the left. He fights global warming, you know!
     
  9. ADigitalArtist

    ADigitalArtist Well-Known Member
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    Sounds like you have more of a dislike of Tesla than a genuine interest in objective comparison. Because the numbers haven't sucked, even according to both sides of the political isle. There's more testing to see, but I'm mostly seeing positive feedback.
     
  10. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
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    I dislike Tesla's cost to taxpayers because of the heavy subsidies (on both the front & back
    end of each car). Before the roofing claims, it was more a dislike of crony capitalism & corporate
    welfare...but the roofing materials claims strike me as not mere slopping at the federal trough, but
    outright dishonest. The claim that it costs about the same as other roofing systems....
    BoooOOOOooooOOOOooooOOOoooogus. (Say that as would Tom or Ray Magliozzi.)
    If the numbers don't suck, then where's the analysis showing this?
    Everything presented so far doesn't support the claims.
    And there are ignoramuses on both sides of the aisle.
    (Remember that the recent wars had bi-partisan support.)
     
  11. Guy Threepwood

    Guy Threepwood Mighty Pirate

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    This is one of the problems here yes , if one truly believes one is appeasing the weather gods, by driving this car or installing this roof-
    then practicality is not part of the equation anyway, it's all about the statement- and that's ultimately a notoriously fickle and unstable market- kinda like teen apparel
     
  12. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
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    My approach to green energy is practical.
    - Replace old bulbs with LED.
    - Upgrade efficiency of equipment as it's replaced.
    - Pay attention to insulation & air change control.
    - Efficient landscaping, eg, mow as seldom as practical. (It's the lazy man's way too.)
    - Efficient snow removal with minimal salt usage.
    - Avoid driving as much as practical.
    - Long life products, eg, steel roofing instead of asphalt shingles.
     
  13. ADigitalArtist

    ADigitalArtist Well-Known Member
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    Actually it has supported the claims, so long as you dont misrepresent or perhaps oversimplify the claims. So far CR has been largely in agreement with the Tesla calculation. Doing the Math on Tesla's Solar Roof (Again)
     
  14. ADigitalArtist

    ADigitalArtist Well-Known Member
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    That's some strawman you got there.
     
  15. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
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    This analysis is better.
    But it directly conflicts with the earlier claim about comparable material cost.
    It doesn't address maintenance & replacements.
    The assumed warranty is only 30 years.
    It still depends upon heavy federal subsidy.
    Add to all this the utter lack of a service record, making this new technology
    very risky. I've done the early adopter thing before, & it usually turns out poorly.
    Better to wait for it to mature, eg, condensing furnaces, window films, EPDM
    roofing.

    With a steel roof (as planned for my house in a few years), it will last over
    double the warranty period of a Tesla roof. Instead of spending money to
    generate electricity, I spend it on reducing usage. That's been cheap &
    effective.

    One technology I've been speculating will be practical is in the home cogeneration.
    Imagine heating your house with heat given off by a heat engine (regenerative
    gas turbine) & a heat pump it runs, while also generating electricity (at practically
    100% efficiency, since the heat losses are used to heat the home).
    Btw, I have a 1895 GE steam engine generator set which was used for cogeneration
    of heat & electricity. It's a little one....only 13,000#.
     
  16. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
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    Notice to all....
    I'm all in favor of renewable & green energy.
    I spend a whole lotta money on such things.
    But I'm skeptical of suspicious claims by someone trying to
    sell me something which someone else will (partially) pay for.
    I've seen supposedly great ideas fail before.
    So I've learned not to look with Pollyanna eyes before I leap.
     
  17. ADigitalArtist

    ADigitalArtist Well-Known Member
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    I'm working (on call) so I apologize if I get called away for weird gaps of time.

    I think you might want to re-read what was actually being said.
    "look better than a normal roof, generate electricity, last longer, have better insulation, and actually have an installed cost that is less than a normal roof plus the cost of electricity."
    And from the first CR
    So how could a $73,500 roof be considered cost-competitive with a $20,000 asphalt roof? To compensate for the proposed added value of the “free” electricity from Tesla’s roof, we added in $2,000 a year, over the lifespan of the roof. That’s a typical electric bill in states where solar is big, like California, Texas, and North Carolina"
    He never compared material costs, just installation and square foot total pricing over the 30 years.
    Covered in the total cost.
    Which is comparable to metal roofing. Life expectancy =/= warranty. Biggest metal roof warranty I've seen here is 40 years.
    For accessible green energy options im fine with that, as i would be for other solar, wind and hydro options to come to market.
    There's been some recent lashback against metal roofing longevity claims too, due to flexatiom damage and water damage. With new estimates putting many metal roofs more around 40 years, so being not an early adopter doesn't mean riding the hype is less dangerous.
    But will cost you more money over the long term, according to CR, and the returns on energy is larger than the returns on savings.
    I was the first to criticize the solar roads idea because the claims didn't match the numbers, but this seems much less a legitimate criticism if the actual tech and more a 'Musk is a wanker.'
     
  18. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
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    Let's just agree that it would be great if rooftop solar became economically feasible.
    Are we there yet? I doubt it. But some day......
    Btw, the metal roofs I already have are over 50 years old, & have much life left in them.
     
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  19. Guy Threepwood

    Guy Threepwood Mighty Pirate

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    I like the cut of yer jib- thing about replacing bulbs though-

    incandescents produce a good amount of heat, usually when it is needed most- during cold dark periods

    With an LED, this heat has to be replaced somehow, usually by natural gas, propane etc.

    So if you are getting your electric from hydro or nuclear, switching to LED means switching to fossil fuels- which is fine, but not if you want to be green (by reducing the stuff that actually makes earth green o_O)


    I'm a big fan of sustainable green energy production and recycling though

    sustainable when the sun goes down, the wind stops blowing and the handouts dry up.

    So ideally I would like the sort of solar energy, that has already been gathered and stored, in convenient liquid fuel form, with massive energy density, in vast reservoirs right under our feet. And using it recycles a tiny fraction of millions of years of depleted CO2, back into the biosphere, where plants can re-use it

    There is one downside; faster plant growth= more mowing, you can't win!
     
  20. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
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    Bulbs operate in both summer & winter.
    In the former, their heat must be removed with air conditioning.
    In the latter, their heat helps. But this is very expensive heat compared to gas furnaces or heat pumps.
    The bottom line is that I use less electricity with LED bulbs.
    I win by cutting my utility costs.
    Being green can save money.
     
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