Voter ID laws

[Wandered Off]

What are your opinions of laws requiring ID to vote?

The Supreme Court is expected to issue a ruling in time for the next general election on the Indiana law requiring voters to show their ID as proof of eligibility. Some such laws have been upheld, while others have been stuck down.

Court to hear voter ID case - Yahoo! News

I have to admit that, in general, I do not understand why anybody would object to such a law. Is having to show an ID intimidating? I would think there must be something to it or else we wouldn't see so many challenges. What am I missing?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I have to admit that, in general, I do not understand why anybody would object to such a law. Is having to show an ID intimidating? I would think there must be something to it or else we wouldn't see so many challenges. What am I missing?

What forms of ID would be acceptable?

For photo ID, the main ones that come to mind for civilians would be a driver's license or a passport. For a poor person without a car or the means to travel abroad, a requirement to get (and pay for) either of those forms of ID would be equivalent to a poll tax. As well, people who aren't physically able to drive cannot get driver's licenses, so they're excluded from the main method that people use to get photo ID.

Also, to get most forms of ID, you need an address. Therefore, if you enact a requirement that every voter present government ID, you effectively disenfranchise the homeless.

Those problems pop into my mind right away. I'm sure there are others.

 

[Comprehend]

I think it is a reasonable and necessary law. We have to protect against voter fraud and being required to show ID is a minimal requirement.

It is in no way intimidating to honest voters and it is intimidating to law breakers which is just as it should be. If you are a law breaker, we want you to be uncomfortable and discouraged from trying to break the law.

The reason why there is so much opposition to the law is because so many political groups benefit from breaking the law and they want to keep it that way. There is no other logical reason to fight such a common sense requirement.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The reason why there is so much opposition to the law is because so many political groups benefit from breaking the law and they want to keep it that way. There is no other logical reason to fight such a common sense requirement.

Yes - ensuring that the poor and disabled maintain their right to vote is not logical, right?

 

[Booko]

What are your opinions of laws requiring ID to vote?

I'll let you know after Nov. 6th. That's our next election in Georgia, and the first one since we enacted a voter ID law. (I'm a poll manager, btw.)

The Supreme Court is expected to issue a ruling in time for the next general election on the Indiana law requiring voters to show their ID as proof of eligibility. Some such laws have been upheld, while others have been stuck down.

The objections I had to our first version of this law was that it was not much more than a poll tax. It seems the courts agreed and the law was revisited. We'll see how it works.

We don't normally have ID issues in our precinct anyway, except for the odd woman who leaves the purse in the car and doesn't want to walk back and get it, and there's one guy that stops by after his jogging run every election and he forgot his wallet the one time.

But there are other precincts where this would be an issue for some, and the managers to compare notes, as well as the election officials give us all the big picture of how changes went during our training for the next election, so I would know even more in January as we train for the primaries.

I have to admit that, in general, I do not understand why anybody would object to such a law. Is having to show an ID intimidating? I would think there must be something to it or else we wouldn't see so many challenges. What am I missing?

It isn't intimidating, but there are people who are so dirt poor and without transportation that requiring them to *pay* for an ID or requiring them to travel 50+ miles with no transporation would actually prevent them from voting.

The state has consulted with, and teamed up with, organizations that work to help people register to vote, to provide transportation. And the IDs are free free free, so the cost is not an issue. Having time and the physical ability to get an ID would still be an issue, but it's an issue for registration as well.

And the state is doing a HUGE effort of advertising and outreach to those populations that will need to get IDs, so they can be well-informed on what they need to do to get an ID.

So at this point I actually have some confidence that this might work out ok. If it doesn't, I'm sure I'll hear about it.

A tad off the subject, but one argument I've heard about the need for IDs is "those illegals will vote!" I am here to tell you that that is complete horse hockey. If there were any illegals voting in Atlanta, it would be in *my* precinct, because it's in the heart of where the illegals land in Doraville.

Maybe somewhere in the SW U.S. that's going on, but it sure ain't going on here.

 

[Wandered Off]

Also, to get most forms of ID, you need an address. Therefore, if you enact a requirement that every voter present government ID, you effectively disenfranchise the homeless.

Since the article mentioned Indiana's law specifically, I looked up the requirements and found this:
"If you have a non-traditional residence, you still have the right to register and vote. Simply draw a map on the voter registration applicatin indicating where you live (where you usually spend the night) and list a mailing address within your county that can be used to mail your notification that you are registered."
http://www.in.gov/sos/elections/pdfs/QandA.pdf

As for the ID argument:
"Voters who do not already have a valid photo ID can obtain an Indiana state photo ID card free of charge from any BMV license branch that issues dirvers' licenses and ID cards. Free IDs are issued year round, but the BMV is also open extended hours on Monday before Election Day from 8:30am to 8pm and on Election Day from 6am to 7pm for this purpose."
http://www.in.gov/sos/elections/pdfs/Photo_ID_final.pdf

 

[Booko]

Also, to get most forms of ID, you need an address. Therefore, if you enact a requirement that every voter present government ID, you effectively disenfranchise the homeless.

The homeless are already disenfranchised. You need an address to register anyway and that's always been the case. There's no way to assign a precinct and districts without an address.

EDIT: I see Indiana deals with this differently. I think I will double-check our state law at the training session in October. My curiousity is piqued.

This is a shocker to many, but the homeless are further kept homeless, because you can't get welfare or other forms of public assistance...unless you have an address.

 

[Comprehend]

Yes - ensuring that the poor and disabled maintain their right to vote is not logical, right?

You are saying that the poor and disabled will lose their right to vote?

Good one.

Would you mind explaining how they will lose their right to vote?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Since the article mentioned Indiana's law specifically, I looked up the requirements and found this:


As for the ID argument:

Fair enough. It seems like they've addressed the problems that were my greatest worries.

You are saying that the poor and disabled will lose their right to vote?

Good one.

Would you mind explaining how they will lose their right to vote?

As I outlined in my previous post, drivers' licences are the standard photo ID in most places. If you can't afford the fee, you can't get one. If you're physicially unfit to drive, you can't get one.

Wandered Off has pointed out that Indiana has put workarounds in place for these issues, but problems still remain elsewhere.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The homeless are already disenfranchised. You need an address to register anyway and that's always been the case. There's no way to assign a precinct and districts without an address.

IIRC, up here, a person without an address can go to the polling place, swear or affirm that they live in the district, and then vote as normal. Canada doesn't have the same voter registration system that the US does. We have an "elector's list", but being on it's a matter of convenience only - you don't get turned away at the polls if your name's not on it.

 

[Wandered Off]

We have an "elector's list", but being on it's a matter of convenience only - you don't get turned away at the polls if your name's not on it.

Yeah, that sounds like what we have in my state as well. We also do "provisional ballots" that allow a ballot to be cast on election night and pended until whatever the issue is can be cleared up (within a time limit).

 

[Comprehend]

I do find it amusing that the Democrats are fighting this law because they believe the poor and homeless are mostly democrats...

I thought the democrat party was the party of the super intellectuals?

 

[Booko]

IIRC, up here, a person without an address can go to the polling place, swear or affirm that they live in the district, and then vote as normal. Canada doesn't have the same voter registration system that the US does. We have an "elector's list", but being on it's a matter of convenience only - you don't get turned away at the polls if your name's not on it.

Duh! I should read better. Of course in Canada they would've figured something out.

 

[Booko]

I do find it amusing that the Democrats are fighting this law because they believe the poor and homeless are mostly democrats...

I thought the democrat party was the party of the super intellectuals?

I find your characterization pretty amusing.

I hardly think you could categorize the working stiffs in my old neighborhood as "super intellectuals." :sarcastic

 

[Comprehend]

I find your characterization pretty amusing.

I hardly think you could categorize the working stiffs in my old neighborhood as "super intellectuals." :sarcastic

Hey, it wasn't me that categorized the democratic party that way, it was the democratic party.

Anyway, since you ARE a super intellectual, I must admit I just wanted to see what you would say.

 

[Booko]

Yeah, that sounds like what we have in my state as well. We also do "provisional ballots" that allow a ballot to be cast on election night and pended until whatever the issue is can be cleared up (within a time limit).

Yes, Georgia instituted provisional ballots as well after that Charlie Foxtrot of an election in 2000.

The thing is, your provisional ballot will *not* be counted unless:

1. It would make a difference in the outcome (same as absentee)
2. You come in later and present your ID at the elections office, if you don't have one with you. There's a time limit.

It is useful for those who turn up at the wrong precinct at the end of the day and don't have time to travel to the correct one. The local elections that don't apply to that person won't be counted, but at least they can vote on statewide and national items.

Traffic in Atlanta is horrible, and it's been a benefit for several voters that we could at least offer them a limited ballot. Before 2001, they were just SOL.

There's still one hold unplugged, though. You don't have to present an ID to vote absentee.

 

[Booko]

Hey, it wasn't me that categorized the democratic party that way, it was the democratic party.

What idiot did that? :areyoucra

Anyway, since you ARE a super intellectual, I must admit I just wanted to see what you would say.

Uh...I'm just a birdbrain actually. Don't let any of my posts fool you. Anything intelligent I have to say was typed by my cat.

 

[Wandered Off]

I'll let you know after Nov. 6th. That's our next election in Georgia, and the first one since we enacted a voter ID law. (I'm a poll manager, btw.)

Hi Booko. The Supreme Court's recent decision upholding one version of the law reminded me to follow up with your opinion, if you don't mind sharing any perspective you gained 11/6. Thanks!

 

[Booko]

Hi Booko. The Supreme Court's recent decision upholding one version of the law reminded me to follow up with your opinion, if you don't mind sharing any perspective you gained 11/6. Thanks!

As it turns out, we had an election on Super Tuesday when the law was in force (and will have another in July).

We didn't have any problems over it. Oh sure, we had a couple of smartarsed voters, but you know, you just have to suck it up and be professional about that.

We also put the sweetest 90 year old lady on the ID check table, and that seems to keep people from getting stupid too.

The law is a little bit confusing about what IDs are acceptable, because we can take an expired out of state driver's licence but not an in state one (unless I have that backwards...I *always* look at the doc to make sure I've got that right.)

We can take gov't IDs, which includes state unis but not private ones, so just because something is a uni ID doesn't mean we can use it.

We didn't hear any complaints from anyone about anyone not being able to vote though, and we have a LOT of immigrants in my area, and we keep seeing more and more show up at our polls as they become citizens.

The real serious problem at our poll is language barrier, and when I'm retrained next month I intend to ask those in charge what our options are to see that voters can manage to work the machines and vote.

Our new Asian voters aren't a problem so far...they've always brought in a child to translate for them, which is fine.

It's a couple of Latino voters that came in by themselves that had difficulty. They were first time voters, having just become citizens I guess. . They had proper ID and were on the rolls, so no problem there. They just didn't even speak enough English to fill out the Voter's Certificate, much less figure out how to work the computer voting machines.

The thing is, as poll workers we have some limitations on just how involved we can be in assisting voters in doing the paperwork and I need to get clarification on that. I need to know to what extent I as a poll worker can assist a voter. I mean if someone's blind or illiterate we can assist them. If someone doesn't speak English, uh...we are limited? How is that not some form of literacy test?

If someone who speaks Spanish happens to be in the room, another voter, or the cafeteria worker or whatever, *they* can assist the voter. But there may not be anyone there.

If in fact state law does not allow us to assist in some way, come this fall it could be a very real problem. I want to know what latitude I have to contact the local Latino organization near me and see if they can find a volunteer to hang out on voting day to help anyone who needs it, if we are legally unable to do so.

 

[McBell]

Public Law 109-2005 requires Indiana residents to present a government-issued photo ID before casting a ballot at the polls on Election Day.
Your photo ID must meet 4 criteria to be acceptable for voting purposes. It Must:

1. Display your photo

2. Display your name, and the name must conform to your voter registration record. Conform does not mean identical.

3. Display an expiration date and either be current or have expired sometime after the date of the last General Election (November 7, 2006)

• Including Military IDs with expiration does of "INDEF"

4. Be issued by the State of Indiana or the U.S. government In most cases, an Indiana driver license, Indiana photo ID card, Military ID or U.S. Passport is sufficient.


A student ID from an Indiana State school may only be used if it meets all of the 4 criteria specified above.
A student ID from a private institution may not be used for voting purposes.
Indiana Secretary of State :: Todd Rokita



If you are applying for a new driver license, identification card, learner permit, or driver education permit you must visit a license branch and present the following documents:

• One primary document;(scroll up) and
• One secondary document; and
• Proof of Social Security number or Social Security ineligibility; and
• Proof of Indiana residency.

OR

• One primary document; and
• Proof of Social Security number or Social Security ineligibility; and
• Proof of Indiana residency.

A primary or secondary document may also meet the Indiana residency requirement as long as the document shows the applicant's name and correct address.
BMV: Identification Requirements