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"Vote as if your life depends on it, because it does."

Rational Agnostic

Rational Agnostic

Well-Known Member
LightofTruth said:
If I entered a golf tournament where everyone did not follow the official rules of golf then i would be at a disadvantage if I did.
If players who hit their ball out of bounds were taking mulligans, then why should I not take a mulligan?
If players who positioned their ball so that they could have a better shot, then why should I not be allowed to better position my ball?

It depends on who you are playing with. If you're playing with cheats, then cheating will help you.
If you know they are cheats, then perhaps you might not want to play with them at all.

Donald Trump is a cheat who entered the world of cheats.
Click to expand...

While not a trump supporter (though many people think I am) I think you make a good point. Sometimes cheating and deception IS necessary to get ahead and avoid being walked all over. None of the world leaders play a fair game, almost all of them got there through cheating, lying and manipulation as Machiavelli pointed out. Cheaters DO prosper. It's the sad but true reality of the game of life.
 
mikkel_the_dane

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Hubert Farnsworth said:
While not a trump supporter (though many people think I am) I think you make a good point. Sometimes cheating and deception IS necessary to get ahead and avoid being walked all over. None of the world leaders play a fair game, almost all of them got there through cheating, lying and manipulation as Machiavelli pointed out. Cheaters DO prosper. It's the sad but true reality of the game of life.
Click to expand...

Well, if you want power for power and just that, then yes. But I doubt you can use Machiavelli on a republic like the USA. And I do think the world has changed since the day of "The Prince".
 
L

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
Hubert Farnsworth said:
While not a trump supporter (though many people think I am) I think you make a good point. Sometimes cheating and deception IS necessary to get ahead and avoid being walked all over. None of the world leaders play a fair game, almost all of them got there through cheating, lying and manipulation as Machiavelli pointed out. Cheaters DO prosper. It's the sad but true reality of the game of life.
Click to expand...
The best advice is to come out from it all. Separate yourselves from everything concerning it because it is no good.
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Terry Sampson said:
Although I eagerly look forward to the publication of Mary Trump's book, I don't really expect to be surprised by anything written in it, especially after reading Tony Schwartz's May 28th 2020 article: "The Psychopath in Chief".

The Psychopath in Chief
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Yep, as our democracy and country are part of what's at stake. His disregard for the "rule of law" is the antithesis of what this country was built on.
 
sun rise

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Revoltingest said:
I'll be sure to put that on my not reading list.
He now has a record in office.
Knowing about how his childhood made him who he is would
be about as useful as the ability to name all the Kardashians.
Click to expand...
The book provides more background to his narcissism etc, but it does not change my opinion of him.
 
sun rise

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Hubert Farnsworth said:
Sometimes cheating and deception IS necessary to get ahead and avoid being walked all over.
Click to expand...

Given my beliefs, I don't value lying and cheating to "get ahead" in life.

And I know examples of honest people who have not been "walked all over" so I know it's possible.

To repeat a story: in the East there's a story about an honest man who saved a woman from being raped by helping her hide and then sitting down on a new rock. He told the rapists that no one had passed by while he was sitting there. It was the truth but it was also said in a way that allowed the rapists to draw the wrong conclusion.

His words were literally true but constituted a deception based on a positive motive. That to me is just fine.
 
Rational Agnostic

Rational Agnostic

Well-Known Member
sun rise said:
Given my beliefs, I don't value lying and cheating to "get ahead" in life.

And I know examples of honest people who have not been "walked all over" so I know it's possible.

To repeat a story: in the East there's a story about an honest man who saved a woman from being raped by helping her hide and then sitting down on a new rock. He told the rapists that no one had passed by while he was sitting there. It was the truth but it was also said in a way that allowed the rapists to draw the wrong conclusion.

His words were literally true but constituted a deception based on a positive motive. That to me is just fine.
Click to expand...

I don't value lying and cheating either. But the reality is many times it works. Heck, it worked to help defeat the Nazis. There was all kinds of deception used in WWII because it was necessary. All's fair in love and war as the saying goes.
 
Sunstone

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
mikkel_the_dane said:
Well, if you want power for power and just that, then yes. But I doubt you can use Machiavelli on a republic like the USA. And I do think the world has changed since the day of "The Prince".
Click to expand...

Half the national politicians in this country have a copy of "The Prince" on their bedside table, and the other half can't read.
 
Mindmaster

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Terry Sampson said:
LOL! Well, yeah, ... he could have been a serial killer.
Click to expand...

That's beyond a stretch. Anyway, people don't hate Trump for what he is they hate him for what they think he is. That's different. I find no value to harboring hateful thoughts toward anyone, and I don't even hate Obama (despite my obvious disagreements with this policy). The mind is one's castle or dumpster -- choose wisely, lol.

I have my disagreements with many of Trump's policies as well, but that's how it goes. No one is perfect and they're not YOU, and they're going to do a couple of things that make you shake your head. Anyway, I miss the old days when people dialed it back from 11 to about 5-6. Everyone just seems to be a ball of pathetic negative emotion and their sensibilities have gone right out the window. The most vehement left or right are truly demoralized and pathetic people these days, and take their 1% of wins like a drug addict takes another hit. They are truly unhealthy.
 
Nakosis

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
LightofTruth said:
If I entered a golf tournament where everyone did not follow the official rules of golf then i would be at a disadvantage if I did.
If players who hit their ball out of bounds were taking mulligans, then why should I not take a mulligan?
If players who positioned their ball so that they could have a better shot, then why should I not be allowed to better position my ball?

It depends on who you are playing with. If you're playing with cheats, then cheating will help you.
If you know they are cheats, then perhaps you might not want to play with them at all.

Donald Trump is a cheat who entered the world of cheats.
Click to expand...

If this case the thing to do would be to be the best cheat around. There are only 45 people in the world who can claim they've managed to cheat their way into the Whitehouse. Can't wait to see who is 46.
 
T

Terry Sampson

Well-Known Member
Mindmaster said:
That's beyond a stretch.
Click to expand...
You're the one who said Trump could have been much worse. I was just agreeing with you: Indeed, he could have been much worse.

And you pull out the ol' "Obama was worse" card. Surprise! Check your calendar. Obama hasn't been president since January 20, 2017; and today is July 9, 2020:
  • 1286 days
  • 3 years, 6 months, 9 days
  • 42 months, 9 days
  • 183 weeks and 5 days
  • 1286 days
And Trump is still president, and there's a chance that the Psychopath could let a second term go to his head.

Mindmaster said:
I still think Obama was worse, though he talked a better game. I didn't vote for him on his second term exactly for his distance from his talking points and actions. Trump doesn't have that problem most of the time, I respect that more even if I don't always agree.
Click to expand...
Let's see if I've got the picture right:
  • Obama talked a better game than Trump; but his follow-through didn't meet your standards.
  • Trump has talked a worse game than Trump, and you don't always agree with him; but you respect the fact that he follows through ... "most of the time".
Newsflash: I'm not impressed by your reasoning skills. You won't be getting my vote in November.
Mindmaster said:
Anyway, people don't hate Trump for what he is they hate him for what they think he is.
Click to expand...
I don't care who hates him or why. I don't want him as President based on what he is: a pathological liar with psychopathic tendencies, who is on record as having said:
  • Screenshot_2020-07-09 Remarks.png
Mindmaster said:
Anyway, I miss the old days when people dialed it back from 11 to about 5-6.
Click to expand...
Oh, really? When and where would that have been? I'm 72 years old, and aside from military service and about 8 months traveling overseas, I've lived in the U.S. my whole life. Last time I remember things being dialed back were during the Eisenhower years. But that's because I was a little kid then and my world was pretty much a small portion of Oklahoma City.
 
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sun rise

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Revoltingest said:
"Evidence" means different things to different people.
But I think that a book about Trump's childhood offers none.
Click to expand...
I'm glad you read it before reaching that conclusion. Or do you believe which report has all the info?
 
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