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Featured Voices of hope in the RF wilderness of religious chaos.

Discussion in 'Interfaith Discussion' started by pearl, Dec 7, 2019.

  1. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

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  2. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    A. This is four years old.
    B. The title is incredibly misleading; read the entire letter and not just the super pro-Christian take on it. The rabbis NEVER stated that they're accepting Jesus as anything, they simply acknowledge his role in spreading Torah and monotheism in the world. The idea of the letter was to extend a hand to the Christians in hope of spreading together similar ideas in the world, ones accepted by both religions.
     
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  3. Rival

    Rival Veteran Member
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    I love how Christians can be desperate for Jewish approval.
     
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  4. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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  5. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

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    It is acknowledged that Jesus is a faithful Jew, one of their own and considering the history, even up to the present, the reluctance of Ultra Orthodox Jews, ultra traditional Catholics and ultra conservative Evangelicals, this is a promising statement opened to continued dialogue.
     
  6. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    No, they don't say that, read the letter again.
    Everyone agrees Jesus was Jewish, so what's your point?
    Dialogue about what? Read the letter. The idea of the letter was a call to help each other spread common, agreed-upon ideas.
     
  7. Terry Sampson

    Terry Sampson Well-Known Member

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    Which raises questions in my mind:
    Has the Rabbis' statement been revoked, corrected, amended, or expanded by any of the signors or other traditional Jewish and/or Christian "authorities"? [I'll do my own research.]
    So, who publishes "Israel Today"? I am unable to identify the precise name of the person or group responsible for its publication. The article's headline suggests a Christian bias, but I am hesitant to affirm that that is a fact. One thing's for sure: If Christians are behind the publication of Israel Today and the article featured in the OP, anybody who thinks that those Christians "are seeking Jewish approval" is woefully mistaken.
     
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  8. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    You make a good point. It's actually a little surprising that Israel Today would have such a pro-Christian title. It's a non-religious Jewish-Israeli newspaper with some right-wing tendencies.
     
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  9. Terry Sampson

    Terry Sampson Well-Known Member

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    Very interesting, bordering on nearly fascinating, IMO.
     
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  10. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

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    הצהרה רבנית אורתודוקסית בנושא הנצרות
    About Israel Today - Israel Today
    About Israel Today - Israel Today
     
    #10 pearl, Dec 8, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2019
  11. Terry Sampson

    Terry Sampson Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I read that. It only evoked even more curiosity than I had initially. No one person or corporate entity is identified as being the mover/maker/pocketbook behind the publication. AND, equally curiosity-provoking, IMO, are these self-acknowledgements:
    • Founded in 1978, when it began publishing a monthly German news magazine,
    • the English language edition of Israel Today was launched in January 1999
    • Israel Today has also added editions in Japanese, Korean, Dutch and Norwegian.
      • Since when do Japanese, Korean, Dutch, and Norwegians have an abundance of interest in and love for Israel?
    • Israel Today’s mission is to be the definitive source for a truthful and balanced perspective on Israel ... [which] is especially important in these times when we see prophetic events unfolding before our eyes.
    • We believe that the existence of the State of Israel is a fulfilment of prophecy and a plumb line for the purposes of God for these times.
    Since when does secular media interest itself in "prophetic events" and "the purposes of God" in any on-going/continuous manner? And if, as I suspect, the folks in and behind Israel Today are NOT secular, are they religious Jews or are they Christian Gentiles? Or, as I'm beginning to wonder, might they be "Messianic Jews." :eek: If the latter, I could understand the absence of names of people and/or corporate entities in/under/behind Israel Today.

    Curioser and curioser ...
     
  12. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    Okay, this is weird. Apparently there's something called Israel Today, and also Israel Hayom (hayom means today in Hebrew). I thought they were the same news outlet, but it seems they're not. What I was referring to (secular, Jewish-Israeli, right-wing) is Israel Hayom, while the OP article is from Israel Today, apparently some random outlet with messianic tendencies. Israel Hayom, on the other hand, is a relatively new newspaper and is pretty popular in Israel.
     
  13. Terry Sampson

    Terry Sampson Well-Known Member

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    Ahh, ... That clears that up for me. Thanks. Still to be identified: who's in/under/behind the English-language Israel Today cited in this thread's OP?
     
  14. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

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    The article did not originate with 'Israel Today', they simply published it.
    It originated with CJCUC
    I read the article in Wikipedia but not entirely helpful. Considering the 'statement' itself I find it hard to believe it originating from 'Messianic Jews' since there is absolutely no indication of Jesus as messiah in either. Both are concerned with the historical Jesus only.
     
    #14 pearl, Dec 8, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2019
  15. Terry Sampson

    Terry Sampson Well-Known Member

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    You've misunderstood me.
    • The Rabbis' statement, posted at Orthodox Rabbinic Statement on Christianity , was published on The Center for Jewish–Christian Understanding & Cooperation [a.k.a. CJCUC] website.
    • "Israel Today" carried an article in which the Rabbis' statement was briefly discussed.
    • Whether or not the Rabbis who signed the statement are Orthodox Jews and not Messianic Jews is one matter that merits verification.
    • Whether or not the newspaper "Israel Today", on the other hand, is a solely traditional Jewish-owned and operated newspaper or is a newspaper with a strong Messianic Jewish bias is a completely different matter that merits clarification.
    • Initially, I have no cause to dispute the allegation that the folks who signed the statement are Orthodox Jews.
    • I do, however, have suspicions about the religious beliefs of Israel Today's owners and employees. And I can't help but wonder why I'm having a hard time figuring out who owns the paper and why folks in Japan, Korea, Holland, and Norway are interested in prophecy and God's purposes in Israel. Are there sizable Jewish Diaspora communities in those countries?
     
  16. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    I recognize like three names on the list. Those three rabbis are orthodox but liberal, as far as I'm aware. I noticed they also included at least three women on a list titled "Rabbis"...:rolleyes:
    Maybe in Holland. Don't think so about the others.
     
  17. Terry Sampson

    Terry Sampson Well-Known Member

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    #17 Terry Sampson, Dec 8, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2019
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  18. Terry Sampson

    Terry Sampson Well-Known Member

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    Aha! A Prominent Rabbi’s Take on Jewish-Christian Relations

    According to the article, my alarmist beliefs seem unfounded.

    “[John] Hagee takes the [Hebrew] Bible literally,” [Rabbi Shlomo] Riskin said in a July 16 interview with JNS.org from Washington, DC, during the annual conference of Christians United for Israel (CUFI), founded by Hagee. “He acknowledges the Jews are the chosen people, recognizing that the Bible gives Christians a mandate to convert only the pagans, not the Jews. Jews have a standing relationship with God that remains.”

    As the CUFI conference began, Hagee declared that the Bible “is a Zionist text.” He welcomed more than 5,000 delegates to the event, and cautioned that “it’s not a matter of if, but when there will be a war in the Middle East.” CUFI, he said, “can give national voice and unity on behalf of Israel now and Israel forever.”

    "Acknowledging that love and spirituality are important, Hagee stressed that “until you immediately impact the lives of those who shape public policy, you are wasting your time.” For six years, CUFI—which has increased its membership from 400 to 1,123,400—has dedicated itself to supporting Israel’s right to exist, to have secure borders, and to have the right and ability to defend itself against its enemies. CUFI bases its position on the Biblical covenant between God and Abraham, a covenant Hagee said cannot “be replaced by the President of the United States or the United Nations.”

    “Any Bible-believing Christian,” said Hagee, “has a Bible mandate to support Israel. This is not a political position. The Bible is a Zionist text. Israel does not occupy the land; it owns the land.”
    Riskin believes cooperation with Christian Zionists can make a “tremendous difference” for Israel. Christians and Jews have “basic shared values,” including the mutual theological concept of “a God of love and absolute morality,” he told JNS.org.

    In contrast, Islam has the concept of a “God of power who seeks world domination and death to the infidel,” Riskin said.

    “Jews are a people of 13 million; to have the friendship of 2 billion Christians is critical,” Riskin said. “There are a billion Muslims. The Palestinians and Israel are just part of the larger picture.”

    “Having the Christians on our side has tremendous political importance,” he added. “It is wonderful that we are not alone.”

    The “rapprochement with Christianity,” said Riskin, begins with the Catholic Church and the earthquake of change initiated by Pope John Paul II and continuing under the current Pope. The elimination of the Christian concept of “replacement theology,” says Riskin, is of critical importance among the Evangelical community in America.

    Riskin called “religious Zionist” a “compound noun” that can be to describe Christians, not just Jews.

    “One cannot be truly religious and not be a Zionist,” he said. “The concept also applies to Christians who take the Bible seriously.”

    Evangelicals, Riskin said, are “very sincere, very smart people.” But is he concerned about attempts at proselytizing (converting Jews to Christianity)?

    “I cannot dialogue with anyone who wants to convert me, who doesn’t respect me as I am,” Riskin said. “If Christians believe they have the more perfect revelation, and that Jews will convert, that is their right.”

    Terry says: I don't have an issue with the Rabbi, it's John Hagee that I don't trust.
     
  19. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    Googling John Hagee and CJCUC shows there's a clear connection between the two. This just goes to show how liberal these rabbis are. Actually, I don't remember this letter making headlines in Israel. All I remember was the announcement the pope made in regards to the 50th anniversary of Vatican II.
    What bothers me, though, is Israel Today's misleading title.
     
  20. Terry Sampson

    Terry Sampson Well-Known Member

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    Me too. But what troubles me even more is that Rabbi Riskin thinks John Hagee is a good buddy to have. John Hagee - RationalWiki
     
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